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[Cryofluid]

I make this post because I'm fed up with people whining about militia.
It seems that there is only my gang (TTTLA) that is content with militia in town.

=>Big "kill'on'sight"gangs are whining because it inteferes with their battle ground. Wtf! a town shouldn't be doomed to be a constant battleground! A fight here and there sometimes would be enough (and than funnier).

=>Many lone players (and even GM as I can read in Gasoil draw comments) are also complaining about that.

We have tested towns without militia for 8 month or more and it wasn't that good=> Of course, small scale actions were enable like Modoc'militia or Orphans welcoming people in Den. But it was before BBS pushed the pvp at its extreme.
At this time, it was impossible to put a foot in town without being killed by them (Yes they were very active and slept few).
All other gangs followed their way and no-one could cope with big gangs (except big gangs).

There was a long dark period where North cities were ghost cities.

And then comes hope: MILITIA in town. Strangely it was suggested by a famous BBS (NiceBoat).
At the beginning, it was nice. Whenever my gang manage to control Broken Hills we could have meeting with players in town without having to be full stuff gang.
Thanks to militia, it was again possible to stand at entrance without being killed instantly.

Now I see the problem => cities are controlling mostly by evil gangs (For now we are still reorganising but we hope to counter that in a close future)
Consequently, with militia it's WORST than before=> they need only one guy in bluesuit in town=> this guy kick all players that are coming and militia finishes the work...
Very sad and it's nonsense.


MY SUGGESTION (not to throw the baby out with the bathwater):

Militia should interfere EXACTLY the same way as it does in SOUTH cities.
Even concerning the owner gang!
The only time when the militia will help the owner gang would be when TC is triggered.


BTW dev, sometimes I wonder how you find the strength to keep on with so many whiners (even GM are whining!). As for me, I accept criticism for my work, but sometimes it's good to have congratulations.Yet, perhaps many players PM you secretly to congrat your good works?

[Surf]

I agree wholeheartly. Ofcourse I am no evil warrior of the north, but I often visit the towns there when there's not so much fighting. I don't have anything against the milita but can understand why some players want them to be removed (for obvious reasons.  ) like you, Cryo, already said.

[Cultist]

I just find them annoying when the faction that controls the town just uses them to help them pk bluesuits. Luckily the geckos in klam seem to have been turned off because getting bursted to death due to a lizard nipping at your heels was a pain.

[DonGizmo]

I think that Cryo boys deserves one town with their own militia like an RP project.. Seriously. Gift from devs/gm. But rest of cities (northern) should be without militia because well known bad effects on gameplay.

[JovankaB]

=>Many lone players (and even GM as I can read in Gasoil draw comments) are also complaining about that.

Nah, I'm not really complaining about militia. If it was up to me, ALL town control mechanics and features would be removed. Yes, REMOVED. If you want to control something, you go there with real people, kill all enemies, and stay there and try to protect it as long as you want. If you are not there you obviously don't control anything. That means no militia (you can bring your own mercs), no TC NPC, no "magical boxes" with rewards from nowhere (you can loot, do town jobs or tax other players), no magical global messages (however I would add town radio channels with automatic messages like "heavy fights in Modoc, watch out" etc), no pipboy TC status (who cares anyway). But that's my vision and it will never happen so whatever.

[avv]

Militia should interfere EXACTLY the same way as it does in SOUTH cities.
Even concerning the owner gang!
The only time when the militia will help the owner gang would be when TC is triggered.

But this is just briliant. In addition players could ban certain gangs and factions out of the town. If some gang member tries to abuse it so that he bans currently visiting players, they would first reseive a sufficient warning before getting shot.

Nah, I'm not really complaining about militia. If it was up to me, ALL town control mechanics and features would be removed. Yes, REMOVED. If you want to control something, you go there with real people, kill all enemies, and stay there and try to protect it as long as you want. If you are not there you obviously don't control anything. That means no militia (you can bring your own mercs), no TC NPC, no "magical boxes" with rewards from nowhere (you can loot, do town jobs or tax other players), no magical global messages (however I would add town radio channels with automatic messages like "heavy fights in Modoc, watch out" etc), no pipboy TC status (who cares anyway). But that's my vision and it will never happen so whatever.

5 months before I thought this could be the way to go but it would never work. This is a game, not a job. Npcs are there to do the boring work for us players. Encouraging players to hang around somewhere for hours and hours is just awful concept. Some people just couldn't fit it in their timetable and that's just not fair - not even by means of wasteland harshness.

[runboy93]

Militia don't help you feel powerful.. i think it is coward.

[JovankaB]

This is a game, not a job. Npcs are there to do the boring work for us players. Encouraging players to hang around somewhere for hours and hours is just awful concept.

Who said about doing boring stuff for hours? You want to do something in the city, you go in. If you want to hang around for hours (which can be enjoyable), you can do it too. Basically you hang there around as long as you wish to. Of course whole reputation/karma/action consequences should be reworked, I don't think people who do shit in towns all the time should have the easiest life there.

[Ned Logan]

Militia should interfere EXACTLY the same way as it does in SOUTH cities.
Even concerning the owner gang!
The only time when the militia will help the owner gang would be when TC is triggered.

But this is just briliant. In addition players could ban certain gangs and factions out of the town. If some gang member tries to abuse it so that he bans currently visiting players, they would first reseive a sufficient warning before getting shot.

Best suggestions about TC ever!
It should not be forgotten that town militia should be most concerned about the townspeople, not the gang guarding/invading it.

[brad smalls]

i tink that there is no compramise it has to go

[avv]

Who said about doing boring stuff for hours?

Guarding some place is pretty damn boring when nothing happens but you gotta do it because something could happen. Causing havoc is easy because it's quick in and out mission, suitable for players. But upholding the law is another issue because it requires constant presence. That's something you can't demand from casual players and therefore it's more suitable job for npcs.

[Cryofluid]

Nah, I'm not really complaining about militia. If it was up to me, ALL town control mechanics and features would be removed. Yes, REMOVED. If you want to control something, you go there with real people, kill all enemies, and stay there and try to protect it as long as you want. If you are not there you obviously don't control anything. That means no militia (you can bring your own mercs), no TC NPC, no "magical boxes" with rewards from nowhere (you can loot, do town jobs or tax other players), no magical global messages (however I would add town radio channels with automatic messages like "heavy fights in Modoc, watch out" etc), no pipboy TC status (who cares anyway). But that's my vision and it will never happen so whatever.

But we already know the result of that:
Klamath, Den, Modoc, Redding, Broken Hills will be empty towns because after being slaughtered 1, 2 or 3 times in a row , wastelanders won't come there anymore.

Those 5 interesting towns will be EXCLUSIVELY playgrounds for big pvp gangs.

What I suggest is to have more LIFE in those towns without becoming fully safe towns as south cities are.

You could compare this to Klamath mine => many people come here and can INTERACT with eachother BUT an enough armed group can come at any moment and killed everyone.
YET, it doesn't happen all the time thanks to militia
=> That is what I called fun: we are in danger but we can still have some talks.

In south cities, you can have some talks but you are not in danger => boring.

[Kilgore]

But we already know the result of that:
Klamath, Den, Modoc, Redding, Broken Hills will be empty towns because after being slaughtered 1, 2 or 3 times in a row , wastelanders won't come there anymore.

Aren't they empty now?

Those 5 interesting towns will be EXCLUSIVELY playgrounds for big pvp gangs.

Bullshit, they are now EXCLUSIVE for those gangs which can wipe out militia. Without militia, individuals can visit towns without being instakilled by someone with 9mm, standing behind 400-600HP NPCs.

As funny as it is, I fully agree with Jovanka here. TC more like in second season, where it was almost entirely symbolic (shitty rewards, no militia, no gear check, no timer etc.), so it could be as well removed totally. We tried many TC options in various times, with perm control, without perm control, with capture 2h-window, with various timers, with militia, without it, and it ALWAYS caused some problems or imbalance: big alliances, swarms, camping on worldmap, camping in a small room, bluesuits taking towns and other shit. No special limits like "you can take only 1 town" or sth can really improve the situation .

You want to "control" the town, take your team and stand there. You need help of NPCs, buy mercenaries (btw they should be upgraded a bit). More roleplaying, which is atm extinct in this game, instead of something like "let's take all cities, waste 2h camping in small rooms, to generate enormous ammount of caps if we manage to hold it long enough".

Cryo: it was already mentioned that in the 2nd season, many times a gang or a combination of a gang and individual players were able to keep a town at least partially "safe".

[Izual]

I agree with Kilgore (Never thought I'd say that one day!). Also, it doesn't sound like a bad idea to lose control of a town if nobody is inside it.

[Cryofluid]

Well your solution sounds convincing too:

But then, the town has to be lost if nobody of the gang is inside as Izual said

Let's try to combine both solutions:

1: If no gang has taken control of the city, than a small neutral militia appears to help the mayor for maitaining order in his town => this neutral militia has the same script as in south cities: difference is it is MUCH weaker so that a strong group can kill it (like in klamath and junktown mines)
In pipboy=> town belongs to no-one => wastelanders knows that it is a bit safe so they can try to do some stuff in it.

2: A gang wants to take control of the city => he has to kill the neutral militia (which will respawn 1 hour later if no-one has taken control of city)
In pipboy, wastelanders will see who controls the city and than will have choice to go there or not (depending on their relationships with the gang)


Adavantages:

Wastelanders will come again in North towns because they will know in advance if the city is well-guarded or not.

Pvp gangs won't be bothered by militia anymore=> the 2 gangs in fight will both have to cope with militia
That way, it will be more challenging to take a town.

And at last, life will come again in north cities!