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[Drakonis]

Since I got your attention...

What do we have now?:

For the victim: Annoying thiefs literally CHASING YOU AROUND THE MAP and stalking you. You have to constantly move or keep all precious items in your hands to avoid a big loss. A thief can pretty much clean you out of items in matter of seconds.

For the thief: Im so uber-pro that I can choose the items I want to still when I venture inside pockets of my victim. A rifle? Meh, it's mine now. Doesn't even matter that the guy has like 9-10 perception. He still won't be able to protect his items only if i chase him around the map long enough and catch him off-guard or lagging at the moment. Lalala nothin to loose.


Is this really how thieving should look? really? Really, a bunch of guys in bluesuits chasing you around with no consequesnce even if their intentions are so freaking obvious?


OK so my suggestion is:
Change1:
Penalty for stealing in a bluesuit. I mean come ON! It's a BLUE suit- this shit should give a penalty for both sneak AND steal. Why? Because it's so god damn visible. This is best to be observed at night(Press F6 and compare the visiblility of a guy in a bluesuit and a Leather Jacket)
Why?:
So thiefs have something to loose now actuallty(reputation only, which is free). Many of you will whine but what efford is needed to get some Leather Jackets? NONE REALLY and the game environment would become more eye-pleasant.

Change2:
No stealing animation.
Why?
So performing this action is not so goddamn fucking obvious as it is now

Change3:
The thief should not be able to choose what he takes out of your pocket. It's simply stupid and not realistic that thiefs somehow magically can know the exact content of your pockets/backpack and choose precisely what they want to still and even how many. I simply suggest a random gain system based on your Stealing skill. 100% skill can skill 1-100 caps per pickpocket/ 1-25 ammo/some junk/random shit when 200% stealing guy will obtain 1-300 caps 1-75 ammo/etc etc(ONE ITEM AT A TIME).
-something like 'Baldurs Gate' random gain from stealing system(pickpocketing)

Why?
 It's about realism: in real life pickpocketers just put a hand inside your pocket and take out whatever they manage(without alerting you).

Change4:
SMALL Stealing cooldown depending on your stealing skill. During the cooldown the thief should have a big stealing penalty applied. Cooldown could be 5-15 seconds. Note that stealing from 1 person more than 1 time in a row should also apply some penalty- it's just stupid and retarted how some thiefs are able to literally spam stealing on an unsuspecting guy. Every time the thief reaches to the pocket of a victim, the victim should have a bigger chance to notice what he is actually doing and why is he standing next to him for such a long time

Why?:
So the thief can't just run up to some poor guy and spam him with 3 3 3 3 3 3 3.  


For the love of rat god: please read the whole post before posting. If you are lazy and don't want to read: please restrain from replying.

[Enzo]

I support this abso-fuckin-lutely...

[Surf]

I pretty much agree to. Good ideas.

[HertogJan]

1. There are lots of none thieves around in blue suits. So as a thief you blend in and your chance of getting noticed early on is less.

2. Discussed before, I still agree.

3. Disagree. When you grab caps from your victim you grab all, not some. Look at the link, they're in a bag. You grab the whole bag. Keep in mind that stacked items take extra mouse movement and 2 extra mouse clicks when grabbing more than 1 (1 extra mouse click for 1 item). This means it takes more time, so the victim has more time to run off. if you want to change the system of grabbing stuff, the extra work for stacked items should be removed as well.

4. I like the idea of having the stealing cooldown depending on the height  of the skill like with FA and doctor.
Like other cooldowns if you're on the 30 seconds stealing cooldown you can't steal at all. So no need for a penalty here. You also can't spam stealing due to that cooldown. It just does the animation, although people might actually use FA which has the same animation. When you use steal, an inventory window opens with both you and your victim's inventory and the cooldown starts. The victim walks away, the thief can't steal. Not sure how it is now, but pre-wipe it seemed like the chance of failing grew with every item stolen from the same person where stacked items counted as 1 item.

There has to be some kind of solution for thieves who keep following people, already suggested in another thread.

[Ymeogamaouas]

For the love of GOD change FA/DOC and Steal animation! Its what causes dozens of problems...

for me personally the stealing animation itself is wrong and problematic... even the most succesful thief is so fking obvious the way it is now.

Also as far as I have seen stealing aint that easy right now... unless if your target is afk or completely focused on something else in which case no matter what system we use he will get robbed!

As far as I see a player who is mildly alert can easily avoid you... and thieves lose interest after a few attempts when they see you keep running away. Right now the thief needs to approach you (on walk). He then needs to click on you, the animation happens and then he gets your inventory screen. By the time he can drag and drop an item you can move 1-2 hexes away and thats that. He cant steal any more. Now unless al thieves have super-human reflexes its just that hard!

I tried it yesterday walking around with 250 caps (and an SMG on my off hand waiting for when they get caught) to see how long I need to stay there and if your reflexes are decent you are safe. If you are talking to a vendor, yes you will need to move away but thats the way it works right? In real life if I am focused on a seller and someone strolls behind me approaches with a "funny look" and I decide to ignore him and stay there talking to the vendor thats my business...

The HUGE problem is that people (I have actually done this as well) come up to you when you talk to a vendor pretend to use steal so that you leave so that they may talk to the vendor themselves rather than wait. Solution for this is simple... stop this retarded "he cant speak to many people at the same time" thing.

[Drakonis]

1. There are lots of none thieves around in blue suits. So as a thief you blend in and your chance of getting noticed early on is less.

2. Discussed before, I still agree.

3. Disagree. When you grab caps from your victim you grab all, not some. Look at the link, they're in a bag. You grab the whole bag. Keep in mind that stacked items take extra mouse movement and 2 extra mouse clicks when grabbing more than 1 (1 extra mouse click for 1 item). This means it takes more time, so the victim has more time to run off. if you want to change the system of grabbing stuff, the extra work for stacked items should be removed as well.

4. I like the idea of having the stealing cooldown depending on the height  of the skill like with FA and doctor.
Like other cooldowns if you're on the 30 seconds stealing cooldown you can't steal at all. So no need for a penalty here. You also can't spam stealing due to that cooldown. It just does the animation, although people might actually use FA which has the same animation. When you use steal, an inventory window opens with both you and your victim's inventory and the cooldown starts. The victim walks away, the thief can't steal. Not sure how it is now, but pre-wipe it seemed like the chance of failing grew with every item stolen from the same person where stacked items counted as 1 item.

There has to be some kind of solution for thieves who keep following people, already suggested in another thread.

1. I agree but only because wearing armors is succesfully disencouraged. Encourage people to wear anything else than a 'no armor' and the environment will become more awesome. Im not saying : make it impossible to steal as a bluesiit... just maybe make it more efficent to do it in a leather jacker/armor/sand robes as they blend more with the terrain(and imo thiefs should also have something to loose besides the replication time)

2. No comments here

3. How does 1 grab a bag filled with 10 000 caps that weights something about 3-4kg(irl), or somewhere near 400 ammo caliber .223? And with only 1 hand(yes, pickpocketing is usually performed with 1 hand. the second 1 is used for distraction/holding/cutting a bag or a backpack. I doubt you could fit 400 ammo in 1 hand... well maybe if you were a mutant haha. Stealing a bag filled with even 5000 caps would be goddamn unrealistic(have you any idea how much sound do they make?) only way to steal caps should be to reach inside the bag and grab some- and then squezee your hand so they don't make a sound while you put them in your pocket. The situation you just described is valid only with current system. With my suggested system there would be no need to double or triple click- just use still animation on your unsuspecting victim to take a reasonable amount of caps/ammo/whatever from him. Stealing(pickpocketing) should be never be a way to literally clean the whole inventory of another player- especially not how it looks right now(benny hill style chasing- everybody knows what you are doing anyways)

4. Restricting a player from performing an action is not a good idea in my oppinion- it never was. The thief should be still able to try to pickpocket a victim, but he have to keep in mind that the victim will most likely notice what he is doing at the second attempt(mostly at third)



PS. Suggestion 5.
There should be a stealing penalty if the thief was running a second before using the skill. So eventually it would be impossible to chase your victim in order to steal. That way the work of a thief would require a tactical approach by walking instead of test on whos the best and who can walk away from an obvious thief that is running around like crazy, trying to steal shit from people.

[Fate]

I think that you should be able to steal only 1 item at once. If your steal is successful, you get the item, but the stealing window closes itself automatically. The steal roll should be when you actually use the steal skill, not when you are already dragging and dropping items (Correct me if I'm wrong).

[Jeoshua]

Maybe the steal animation could be replaced by another one we already have... maybe the "headscratch idle"

Sure looks like he's trying to be innocuous to me 

[HertogJan]

1. I agree but only because wearing armors is succesfully disencouraged. Encourage people to wear anything else than a 'no armor' and the environment will become more awesome. Im not saying : make it impossible to steal as a bluesiit... just maybe make it more efficent to do it in a leather jacker/armor/sand robes as they blend more with the terrain(and imo thiefs should also have something to loose besides the replication time)

2. No comments here

3. How does 1 grab a bag filled with 10 000 caps that weights something about 3-4kg(irl), or somewhere near 400 ammo caliber .223? And with only 1 hand(yes, pickpocketing is usually performed with 1 hand. the second 1 is used for distraction/holding/cutting a bag or a backpack. I doubt you could fit 400 ammo in 1 hand... well maybe if you were a mutant haha. Stealing a bag filled with even 5000 caps would be goddamn unrealistic(have you any idea how much sound do they make?) only way to steal caps should be to reach inside the bag and grab some- and then squezee your hand so they don't make a sound while you put them in your pocket. The situation you just described is valid only with current system. With my suggested system there would be no need to double or triple click- just use still animation on your unsuspecting victim to take a reasonable amount of caps/ammo/whatever from him. Stealing(pickpocketing) should be never be a way to literally clean the whole inventory of another player- especially not how it looks right now(benny hill style chasing- everybody knows what you are doing anyways)

4. Restricting a player from performing an action is not a good idea in my oppinion- it never was. The thief should be still able to try to pickpocket a victim, but he have to keep in mind that the victim will most likely notice what he is doing at the second attempt(mostly at third)



PS. Suggestion 5.
There should be a stealing penalty if the thief was running a second before using the skill. So eventually it would be impossible to chase your victim in order to steal. That way the work of a thief would require a tactical approach by walking instead of test on whos the best and who can walk away from an obvious thief that is running around like crazy, trying to steal shit from people.

1. Armor that is worn can't be stolen.
If you want people to wear armor in cities like NCR don't force thieves to do so, do something about the guards making innocent victims when shooting people and do something about people killing other people for whatever reason.

3. You probably grab it in the same way you stand up and keep moving when getting shot in the head, the same you ... There's not much realism in this game, why add it for thieves only?
If you get stolen from, you're either stupid or not paying attention.

4. It's not much of a restriction. If you're aware of what a thief is doing you and keep standing still, you:
- run away as you have valuables in your inventory
- have nothing in your inventory (and are hoping no bombs are moved to your inventory)
- are trying to bust thieves in order to shoot them
Neither one of those things need changing.

5. Not necessary.
Not tactical approach needed. With a few exceptions thieves are either in crowded places or in shops. No tactical approach thingy needed here.

On a side note, it seems like thieving is harder now compared to pre-wipe.
My 180+ thief alt fails more often and almost always on larger items (mostly weapons) than pre-wipe at this level.
I doubt the 4 LK difference (6 now vs 10 pre-wipe) has such a big impact.

[Ox-Skull]

Agreed Drakonis.

Also guns and armor should hav more volume.
Because my caravan got lockpicked once and the thief stole armor, rocket laucnhers, rifles, ammo, drugz .

He was in bluesuit. at most he should only hav been able to take a pistol and rocket launcher and some ammo or 1 pistol and 1 metal armor....not the whole lot.
Where did he store it BTW?....up his arse?
But he got evrything.

Quite ridiculous.
and most theifs, im sure hav a high str, to carry as much as possiable.

ox

[HertogJan]

Agreed Drakonis.

Also guns and armor should hav more volume.
Because my caravan got lockpicked once and the thief stole armor, rocket laucnhers, rifles, ammo, drugz .

He was in bluesuit. at most he should only hav been able to take a pistol and rocket launcher and some ammo or 1 pistol and 1 metal armor....not the whole lot.
Where did he store it BTW?....up his arse?
But he got evrything.

Quite ridiculous.
and most theifs, im sure hav a high str, to carry as much as possiable.

ox

More volume for guns and ammo?
How the hell are we supposed to level if we can't take carry the loot?

I don't know about other thieves, but mine only has 5 ST and small frame trait.
To compensate for the small frame trait, I have taken the pack rat perk.
That makes a total carry weight of 67.
For me that's enough as you can't take more than 2 or 3 different items most of the time.

[Ox-Skull]

More volume for guns and ammo?
How the hell are we supposed to level if we can't take carry the loot?

I don't know about other thieves, but mine only has 5 ST and small frame trait.
To compensate for the small frame trait, I have taken the pack rat perk.
That makes a total carry weight of 67.
For me that's enough as you can't take more than 2 or 3 different items most of the time.

So u should be able to carry copious amounts of Guns and armor in a bluesuit.
I just tested it, i can carry : combat jacket, LA MK2, 2xdesert E, 2x10mm pistol, shotgun and sawn off, 5 wood, 10 junk ,223 pistol, 13 ap rockets, 128 44. FMJ, 371 10mm JHP, 65 12g, 5 stims and a scorp tail.

CW 65/67 for me.

Yeah right!

[avv]

As long as stealing success is directly decided with dice roll with skill% against x it's not going to work well in multiplayer. Restrictions, cooldowns and randomness won't make the feature more enjoyable for anyone. Players must be allowed to affect their chances by outsmarting others. That's what games are all about.

[RavenousRat]

As long as stealing success is directly decided with dice roll with skill% against x it's not going to work well in multiplayer. Restrictions, cooldowns and randomness won't make the feature more enjoyable for anyone. Players must be allowed to affect their chances by outsmarting others. That's what games are all about.

May be you also want special window appear with dodging dancing character when you do aimed shot, so you must hit his right body part or eyes with your cursor, he will dance like epileptic if you have low skill, so it'll be really hard to click on his head or eyes, and he'll dance slower if your skill higher.
Or may be make character movement on W-A-S-D, so you can strafe, jumpm etc. and use your own human abilities to have an advantage.
This game is RPG and it's about character sheet and rolls.

[Sarakin]

I think solution for this should be simple and some ideas came to my mind such as:
- change stealing animation
- even looking into someone´s inventory should be counted as stealing
- increase stealing cd, so players won´t bug every player they see, they will rather designate their victims
- bring back good XP for stealing, 5xp per steal attempt is ridiculous
- severe reputation drops on fails

Why ? Current situation with thieves is one big joke. They have NOTHING to lose. Constant harassing by a pack of thieves is not stealing. Sure, I can move, but still I cant trade successfuly.