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[Separatist]

I don't understand current situation with melee right now. Basically in Fallaut 1,2 melee fighter was a tank, capable of killing dozens of mobs. Right now I have a melee char of 17 level with bonus 11 to damage and still I am hitting with Supersledge weaker than most of ranged weapon. Where did go a knockdown bonus for high melee hit (one of the biggest bonuses of that weapon type)? Why Supersledge needs 4 ap for a usual strike instead of 3 in fal 1,2? Apparently Devs doesn't want a melee fighters in FO. A pity, I had so many ideas of melee builds, that would have been interesting to built)) With that current char I had to spent a lot of points in EW just to make him capable of fighting.

[Haterade]

why 4 ap? balance.... FO is still beta, but 4 ap is kept probably so you cant spam by hitting someone. damage? yes.... theres some bug as ive heard, with melee/unarmed thing...

[Atom]

I would like to point out that supersledge was weaker than most ranged weapons in FO/FO2 too, and that there was no such thing as "knockdown bonus for high melee hit" in original games, contrary to what was in FOnline at some point (changes to critical hits with sledgehammer; reverted and further changes postponed).

[Separatist]

I would like to point out that supersledge was weaker than most ranged weapons in FO/FO2 too, and that there was no such thing as "knockdown bonus for high melee hit" in original games, contrary to what was in FOnline at some point (changes to critical hits with sledgehammer; reverted and further changes postponed).

That depends, with certain build it was powerful enough to take down a lot of mobs. It easy to count damage, if we take a  supersledge fighter with 8ag, he will have 3 19-36 strikes (57-108) in a turn. The SG shooter with .223 pistol with 10ag (one of the most powerful weapon for SG) we will have 2 20-30 shoots (40-60) in a turn. Of course on a higher levels there were fast rate of fire bonus and Bonus HtH attack, even those perks would not have changed balance. With right build on higher levels Melee fighter was astoundingly powerful with Slayer perk (4-5 crits in a round with supersledge is "must see build").

Runed F2 5 minutes ago, every melee hit above 10-12 automatically knocks down mob (and throws him from you for several hexes), not to mention 20-30 melee hits.

 

[Solar]

I was actually waiting until other things were done before even trying to guess at decent values. They'll have their turn eventually - I don't have the heart to abandon Bob

[Atom]

It easy to count damage, if we take a  supersledge fighter with 8ag, he will have 3 19-36 strikes (57-108) in a turn. The SG shooter with .223 pistol with 10ag (one of the most powerful weapon for SG) we will have 2 20-30 shoots (40-60) in a turn.

This is assuming no aimed shots (which make AP count less), and unarmoured target (so that ammo DR modifiers does not count). Very convenient. Top-shelf ranged weapons from Fallouts (and supersledge was top-shelf melee one) easily win.

Runed F2 5 minutes ago, every melee hit above 10-12 automatically knocks down mob (and throws him from you for several hexes), not to mention 20-30 melee hits.

This is not a true knockdown, since the critter stands up right after receiving the damage with no AP loss. It simply pushes the critter away damage/10 hexes (damage/5 if weapon has Knockback perk). This is implemented in FOnline but only if true knockdown effect happens (or damage type is explosion).

[Badger]

Something that I think will make a big difference to melee is making the second attack of a lot of melee weapons 'Throw'. They did it in an F2 weapons mod, I can't remember which, I'll check it out later.

As in, regular knives will have Thrust and Throw.

Combat knives will have Swing and Throw.

Crowbars will have Swing and Throw.

Wrenches will have Swing and Throw. You get the idea.

Because as it is now Swing and Thrust are exactly the same - because in Fallout they were exactly the same too. I think rather than trying to create two interesting attacks, give melee weapons more interesting functionality. That is, the possibility to heave them at people. Even stuff like the regular knife can potentially be useful.

[Atom]

Because as it is now Swing and Thrust are exactly the same - because in Fallout they were exactly the same too.

One idea was to give the aftermentioned knockback effect working always with Thrust attack, and never with Swing attack. This way you can decide whether you want to push your opponent away (convenient if you're fighting against lot of melee opponents) or keep him close (if he's a ranged fighter).

[Badger]

One idea was to give the aftermentioned knockback effect working always with Thrust attack, and never with Swing attack.

It's an interesting choice, but I think people would just always use Thrust. The ability to constantly knock your opponent down is preferable, as you can just keep doing it and never let him recover. And it's also frustrating as hell to be repeatedly knocked down.

[Atom]

It's an interesting choice, but I think people would just always use Thrust. The ability to constantly knock your opponent down is preferable, as you can just keep doing it and never let him recover. And it's also frustrating as hell to be repeatedly knocked down.

Still, the opponent will be up on his feet again before you get back to him - unless you wish him to come to you (N/A in case of ranged fighter). Tweaking knocking distance might balance this out.

[Separatist]

This is assuming no aimed shots (which make AP count less), and unarmoured target (so that ammo DR modifiers does not count). Very convenient. Top-shelf ranged weapons from Fallouts (and supersledge was top-shelf melee one) easily win.
This is not a true knockdown, since the critter stands up right after receiving the damage with no AP loss. It simply pushes the critter away damage/10 hexes (damage/5 if weapon has Knockback perk). This is implemented in FOnline but only if true knockdown effect happens (or damage type is explosion).

I was taking base attack intentional to describe max amount of damage per turn.  No reason to count an aimed shots if there is a difference between base damage (or there is a different way to count an amount of crit damage for melee and SG?). Gauss rifle was able almost at the end of the game and yes, was superior to all other weapon (except, perhaps bozar), but then, at the end of a follaut2 there was slayer perk, and it doesn't need to aim.

As in, regular knives will have Thrust and Throw.

Combat knives will have Swing and Throw.

Crowbars will have Swing and Throw.

Wrenches will have Swing and Throw. You get the idea.

Because as it is now Swing and Thrust are exactly the same - because in Fallout they were exactly the same too. I think rather than trying to create two interesting attacks, give melee weapons more interesting functionality. That is, the possibility to heave them at people. Even stuff like the regular knife can potentially be useful.

Hm, if you mean swing = + damage, thrust = armor pierce, throw = throw )) Indeed, that would make difference.

[Badger]

Still, the opponent will be up on his feet again before you get back to him - unless you wish him to come to you (N/A in case of ranged fighter). Tweaking knocking distance might balance this out.

Yeah, but then he has to regenerate all of his AP, doesn't he?

[Atom]

No reason to count an aimed shots if there is a difference between base damage (or there is a different way to count an amount of crit damage for melee and SG?).

There is a difference, because 1 additional AP increases AP attack cost by 33% in case of 3 AP weapon, and 20% in case of 5 AP weapon. In case of flares, arguably the best ranged weapon in game due to 1 AP base cost - assuming perk - and standard 60% instakill chance on successful eye critical hit (with Better Criticals), this increase is 100%.

Yeah, but then he has to regenerate all of his AP, doesn't he?

Not if we're talking about knockback (which is just falling to the ground).

[Separatist]

There is a difference, because 1 additional AP increases AP attack cost by 33% in case of 3 AP weapon, and 20% in case of 5 AP weapon. In case of flares, arguably the best ranged weapon in game due to 1 AP base cost - assuming perk - and standard 60% instakill chance on successful eye critical hit (with Better Criticals), this increase is 100%.

Speaking of balance... For now, I guess, the best HtH\Melee weapon with "instant kill" is a weapon of working class - stone. 3ap for aimed strike to eyes.

Anyway, I don't see any reason for 4ap Sledgehammer if you can't, in any case, make more than 2 aimed strikes with 3ap Sledge in the eyes. (Except 10ag + 2 action boy). Which is much easier to do with ranged weapon.

[Badger]

Not if we're talking about knockback (which is just falling to the ground).

I don't know, I can just see that being the only attack worth bothering with. Much better to repeatedly disable your opponent rather than let them get a hit on you, even if it takes longer. And I guess other people can shoot at this guy as he's sliding around.