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[Andr3aZ]

The way "see but unable to use until quest done" is in my opinion the best.

It doesnt take work from you but it makes u wanna know what that circle is and what it has in store for you.
Runnin around and talkin to every NPC and doin every Dialog isnt everybodys playstyle. Its a roleplay game, it can be played as everyone like, there is no "you should".

[kraskish]

I think some devs/GMs have REQUIREMENT-EVERYTHING MANIA/APPROACH. And I can prove it:

I see no reason why players should get everything from the very beginning without doing anything for it.

I see no reason for wasteland to be crowded with cars. Does it have any relevance to F2? Woops, even the chosen one could have only 1 car and travel half of a map for it hence I see no reason for a car vendor, simply one could buy parts or find them in the wasteland.

I see no reason to firstly impose some non-fallout reality, for example cars and a train, decrease travel speed and not enabling the ease and need for transportation.

I see no reason to have a possibility of people not to have the freedom to be mobile and make the game tedious to travel through.

I see no reason for fonline to be a griefing game.

[Andr3aZ]

I can understand what you think of the comment lexx gave, but thats a bit much. I made fun of it too but come on dont get offended. We should rather discuss the pros and cons of revealing train station on player startup, as this is the topic.
If someone has a nice idea and it has many positive sides over the old version even a dev cant hide from facts
(as due to all respect for puttin free-time work into our (hopefully) beloved game)

"Think objectively and dont hold on your ideas because it just your idea" should be the guideline.

My points:
Fun in gameplay should be over realism in my opinion.
And a bit help for newcomers could be good too. As i stated before i imagine many newcomers wont read the wiki in every aspect before starting to play, and they sure dont talk to every npc.
As already suggested: makin trains visible but not usable before havin the quest done is a fine way
which has absolutly more pros then reasonable contras.

[Parowooz]

I don't have a problem about that. When I do the quest and finally see the stations, I feel like I have achieved something and can finally use these trains. Sorry, but in my opinion they are fine as they are.

You have to discover them with every character you made and after every wipe. Awesome feeling.

[Surf]

You have to discover them with every character you made and after every wipe. Awesome feeling.

I dont have a problem with that. Unless many of you guys I dont use bazillions of alts.

[kraskish]

I can understand what you think of the comment lexx gave, but thats a bit much. I made fun of it too but come on dont get offended. We should rather discuss the pros and cons of revealing train station on player startup, as this is the topic.
If someone has a nice idea and it has many positive sides over the old version even a dev cant hide from facts

I answered in the same manner

"Think objectively and dont hold on your ideas because it just your idea" should be the guideline.

I am. I just think its so obvious that it should be out of the question. Other games have teleports, portals, w/e whereas in Fonline we have the same only after somebody goes through hell and visit all the railway station throught the wasteland. Of course beginners have money to buy a car, theres a lot of logic in this.

My points:
Fun in gameplay should be over realism in my opinion.
And a bit help for newcomers could be good too. As is stated before i imagine many newcomers wont read the wiki in every aspect before starting to play, and they sure dont talk to every npc.
As already suggested: makin trains visible but not usable before havin the quest done is a fine way
which has absolutly more pros then reasonable contras.

My points:
Travel speed decreased, need for cars and transportation -> a little thank you for lowering the speed

beginner players will die dozen of times before theyll visit all the towns required to obtain the locations

Its not "everything" its a basic thing like in-game chat. Otherwise we should have quests for World Map, PipBoy, every item in FIX and running.

[Lexx]

I see no reason for wasteland to be crowded with cars. Does it have any relevance to F2? Woops, even the chosen one could have only 1 car and travel half of a map for it hence I see no reason for a car vendor, simply one could buy parts or find them in the wasteland.

In the Fallout world are many working cars. In the NCR are various working cars as well. Just because you don't see them in the game, doesn't mean there are none.

I see no reason to firstly impose some non-fallout reality, for example cars and a train, decrease travel speed and not enabling the ease and need for transportation.

Like above, cars exist in the fallout world. And if there are cars, there is no reason for not having trains. About the travel speed, I am too lazy to write a word now, simply because there have been written many words about it already.

I see no reason to have a possibility of people not to have the freedom to be mobile and make the game tedious to travel through.

Well, get a car. Buy one or steal one, if you like. Or wait, you want that we give every player a car on character registration? Maybe we should give them APA as well, just in case it becomes dangerous in the desert.

I see no reason for fonline to be a griefing game.

With open pvp, the game will be how it is. Ultima Online wasn't different back in time, when there have been no save-zones.

Its not "everything" its a basic thing like in-game chat.

Use radios.

Otherwise we should have quests for World Map, PipBoy, every item in FIX and running.

That's bogus. If it would be me, players wouldn't even have such stuff and all these things would be nothing else than interface elements (like it has been in the original games, except the pipboy screen).

[Andr3aZ]

I dont see a reason why this is now a discussion about pvp, travelling speed or anything else. its just about the damn visibility on the map, nobody talked about beeing able to use it from the beginning.

Pros have been given, Contras have been given - we should now consider this a suggestion worth to implement or not.

now i understand if dev team says no, but dude this suggestions forums need an autovote (like,dislike) for every new thread to show the popularity of the suggestion amongst players.

[Surf]

now i understand if dev team says no, but dude this suggestions forums need an autovote (like,dislike) for every new thread to show the popularity of the suggestion amongst players.

The popularity amongs the players isn't really top priority. Most important thing is that the suggestion fits into the perspective the devs want to make the game.

[Wyzack]

having to do a quest i dont think is the problem. The issue is that unless you read the forums or wiki, there is no way in hell you will know about them. Most people dont go to town doctors as a matter of course, when it is so much easier to ask for First Aid in a busy town. If the NCR developed a railway station for easier wasteland travel they would definitally advertise it, as it is a source of revenue for them, rather than keep it a closely guarded secret that only doctors seem to know about. If it were more public knowledge then i think it would be much less of a problem.

[Ned Logan]

I dont have a problem with that. Unless many of you guys I dont use bazillions of alts.

Hey try to understand a bit more, not just blindly backbiting gameplay styles you don't like... This even isn't about that alts at all - it is about new players who come to the game for the first time, as someone already wrote.
Many times it has been said it would be nice if introductory materials were part of the game content and not everybody would have to read wiki first before playing, and this definitely should be the case with a fast-travel option which is not so unaffordable for newbies as cars...

Anyway I would be ok if trains stayed as they are, but there should be cheaper, slower and a bit dangerous alternative - town caravans.
Pay a small fee (10-20c) to travel with a caravan (1-2 RT encounters per travel which on 95% the caravan should survive)... The caravan travel network should cover all towns...

[Badger]

Rather than attacking each other's strawmen, let's try and get this clusterfuck back on track:

Need to speak to one of two doctors to discover that trains are in the game is a bad design choice. As is having to travel to the extreme south or extreme north to speak to those doctors. I believe this negatively impacts the popularity and usefulness of trains.

This isn't a case of 'read the manual' - quests should be logical and reasonably discoverable within the game itself. Nor is it a case of wishing to give players something for nothing - a quest to get trains is absolutely fine. But not reading the wiki shouldn't deprive you of certain features, and that's currently the only way people can reasonably be expected to discover trains.

My solution is this:

Make the train stations visible on the map, and make the questgiver at each station. Send the player wherever the hell you like after that. Although if you didn't have to travel half the length of the worldmap, I'd take it as a kindness.

[Gunduz]

I like the 'visible but unusable' idea. What about an NPC in each train town that would send you on a quest to get 'cleared' to ride the train or something. The doctor quests for the train could just be changed to regular quests, with the train obviously making things easier to do.

[Lexx]

The only problem is, that there are no other npcs around telling the player about it. That's all.


But I am not going to change anything anyway, as I am not working on it anymore.

[runboy93]

Well, get a car. Buy one or steal one, if you like. Or wait, you want that we give every player a car on character registration? Maybe we should give them APA as well, just in case it becomes dangerous in the desert.

How to get car, if i do not want thief? And i don't have money?