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[JovankaB]

My idea is to introduce karma and permadeath in a way that could perhaps be acceptable by most players and that would reduce a bit the number of trolls and douchebags (it would be still possible to be one, but now it would also be a real risk - IMHO making the game more interesting for EVERYONE, also for those who want to play some "psychopaths") while keeping more mature PvP (TC battles) intact.

1. Introduce karma.

2. The karma would drop in every location when you shoot (-30), kill (-90), successful steal (-stolen item base price/100) or do other "bad" things to players, UNLESS:
   a) the person you attacked is on "permadeath" timeout
   b) the person has "unprotected" flag (like a thief who failed stealing and was spotted by guards)
   c) the location you are in is a war arena (there is Town Control timeout in the location).
   d) the person you attacked has very low karma (I don't know, something like -2000)

3. Every time your karma drops, you enter permadeath timeout for N seconds/turns where N = karma drop. If you die during the timeout it's equal to permanent death of the character. It would reduce "shot first, ask later" attitude which is unrealistic and unfalloutish IMHO, even if it's wasteland most people aren't psychos shooting everything that moves.

4. Suiciders who will manage to kill someone are automatically permadead. Make sure there are proper checks to prevent causing permadeath by planting explosive on dead body etc exploits.

5. Add some way to turn off peramdeath timeout during events in specific locations.

6. Perhaps there should be some skull icon over a head of people on permadeath timeout, blinking during the last 5 seconds / last turn of the timeout.

[Pandemon]

I liiiike this idea! Maybe finally we'll see less idiots in wastelands.

PS
Hey, Jovanka, what's about next New Reno Event, will it be or not? (asked J. Salvatore)

[Michaelh139]

This will make it where you will never see pvp in town.  Did TC ever cross your mind?

[JovankaB]

This will make it where you will never see pvp in town.  Did TC ever cross your mind?

How about you read it again and try to understand what I wrote?
Hint: points 2c (no permadeath during TC) and 2d (psychos with low karma can kill each other with no permadeath risk).

[LagMaster]

good ideea, but i do not like the perma ideea for others,i suggest repliction coldowns of 2 RL weeks, better than permadeath,depends

[Michaelh139]

How about you read it again and try to understand what I wrote? Hint: point 2c.

Ah, yes I must've missed that, my bad.  

But other than that, we're still forgetting these towns are ungaurded, not to mention we're already losing karma from attacking a player, why must we suddenly get perma death for attacking a player?  Your punishing us for playing the game, and please no one pull that "Well your punishng players by constantly killing them" crap, they're not getting their friggin entire accounts deleted now are they?  Just a couple items missing. And while remember we're ALSO LOSING KARMA, which will eventually lead to the town constantly trying to mob the shit out of people who pvp in towns, which is punishment enough no?  Either waste half a fucking ammo dump's worth of ammo to halt the mob from killing you or run.

[JovankaB]

You are losing REPUTATION not karma. Karma is a different thing.

It's not punishing, it's making the game less quake-like and more fallout-like. Currently there is very little risk with attacking others, so there is plenty of 21 level people runing naked with hunting rifles, shooting bluesuits etc. because death means nothing for them. Remember it would be just 120 seconds of potential permadeath if you kill someone with one shot. It would mean if you kill someone, you have to hide, run away from town if you want to be safe. It makes sense and maybe would make more people coming to towns.

[Michaelh139]

You are losing REPUTATION not karma. Karma is a different thing.

It's not punishing, it's making the game less quake-like and more fallout-like. Currently there is very little risk with attacking others, so there is plenty of 21 level people runing naked with hunting rifles, shooting bluesuits etc. because death means nothing for them. Remember it would be just 90 seconds of potential permadeath. It would mean if you kill someone, you have to hide, run away from town if you want to be safe.

Karma and reputation are practically the same thing, You keep doing bad things to people, people will come after your ass....  Its just reputation deals with specific communities.

[JovankaB]

First of all there is no karma currently. Karma would be global and only for PvP behavior. Maybe you should read my post again. Low karma doesn't mean you have permadeath. Permadeath timeout would be only for a short timeout right after your karma drops. It would make attacking random people more risky but possible.

[Michaelh139]

Maybe you should read my post again. Low karma doesn't mean you have permadeath. Permadeath timeout would be only for a short timeout right after your karma drops.

I am well aware, I'm saying that with your suggestion about killing other players in towns causes our karma to drop steadily, isn't that punishment enough to hav an entire mob constantly chasing you? (WHICH I WIL AGREE NEEDS IMPLEMENTATION!!! badly...)  I just don't think shooting another player (In a specifically titled, "ungaurded" town, should make you viable for permadeath whatsoever.

[JovankaB]

I guess we have different visions of FOnline. I think the problem is that you can stay in Modoc all day and shoot innocent people with only a risk that you will lose one of your 13123128 hunting rifles. Or do it by using militia which is even less risky and made towns even more deserted.

[Badger]

It's a very interesting and unique way to cut down on the game's current sociopathic slant. However, I don't see it getting introduced. I can see it being abused, just because FOnline players seem to only want to stomp the faces of their fellow players and will find ingenious ways of doing it.

I think a lot of the bizarre gameplay - like well armed 21 bluesuits - is also a consequence of full loot. The material consequences for dying are so harsh it stifles normal gameplay - you wear your best armour and shoot your best gun.

[Michaelh139]

I guess we have different visions of FOnline. I think the problem is that you can stay in Modoc all day and shoot innocent people with only a risk that you will lose one of your 13123128 hunting rifles. Are do it by using militia which is even less risky and made towns even more deserted.

I will agree with yu there its kind of ridiculous.  But I have solution for that, there should simply be different gaurd script in miliia, Only if a fellow gang member (in control) IS SHOT not SHOOTING at someone, they will not aid in the killing.

Basically, I am in control of town, i hav 5 militia, I shoot some poor bluesuit, they dont attack bluesut.

I am i control of town, I am shot, militia attack shooter.

Simple solution.

And Back to topic:

I really think karm drop in attacking/killing players in these towns is good enough and will hopefull reduce th continous pk a good bit, but alts...

[Izual]

Finally an interesting idea to introduce permadeath !

I have to say I hate permadeath, but this idea sounds good. Maybe timeouts should be shortened a bit, but it sounds good anyway.

Some things are still bothering me a bit, still.
- What is planned for mercs/slaves/followers ? Leader characters would be quite overpowered, wouldn't they ? Just buy mercs and kill everyone without taking the risk of perma-dying.
- Let's say two teams of 10 players are fighting. 1st team fights normally, shooting or taking cover as usual. 2nd team has characters with high resistance and HP, and its players don't shoot. But whenever one character from the opposing team attacks them, all the 10 focus on the attacker, that quickly dies. Then, wouldn't it lead to a point where when some big teams are on the same location, no one dares shooting because the first to shoot will also be the first to perma-die ?

I vote for a test of that system in CBT.

[Pandemon]

Is caravana meant also like war area or in here karma would drops?