Other > Suggestions
Anonymity
Zak Blayde:
In Cybercity2034, one kowns everyone as "unknown". You can manually enter the name of every people. This way, when a personn tells you his name, you can write in and always "remember" it. It's a more efficient way to put the anonymity in, because when you meet someone, there is a great chance that when you meet him again, you recognize him.
JustGreat:
--- Quote from: Zak Blayde ---In Cybercity2034, one kowns everyone as "unknown". You can manually enter the name of every people. This way, when a personn tells you his name, you can write in and always "remember" it. It's a more efficient way to put the anonymity in, because when you meet someone, there is a great chance that when you meet him again, you recognize him.
--- End quote ---
If I understand correctly, every player has the name "Unknown", with the option to manually write down their name. Why would this be more efficient? First, you cannot discern one Unknown from the next, so it might be a problem with tagging. As well as lead to immense amount of impersonation as there is no way to know if Unknown is really Bob or is he lying.
--- Quote from: Ned Logan ---I still have no idea what awesomeness this can bring...
If I see someone named "Gordon Jones" and I haven't heard of him before, I know nothing about him, same like with this feature implemented.
--- End quote ---
The scenario can be reversed and I can ask, since you don't know anything about him, why should you know his name. I guess this is just a preference of gameplay, but as been pointed out the latter increases roleplay.
--- Quote from: Ned Logan ---Only thing this feature achieves is disabling of name colorizing which I guess is a sneaky way why this is brought up in such way.
--- End quote ---
If I wanted to disable name colorizing I would have made a suggestion about it, this really has less to do with name colorizing (though it is affected) then to intensify the gameplay.
--- Quote from: Ned Logan ---I'm not a fan of suggestions fighting for realism at the expense of gameplay.
With this suggestion, if you are member of a gang whose rule is not to kill newbs and miners, with this feature it would be impossible, because the newb/miner could just send you a screenshot where there is some PK with some random string as name, no way of finding out if it's your gang member or some PK...
If you have been PKed many times by same person, you would never "remember" him, recognize his face, whatever...
--- End quote ---
What is a "newb" or "miner"? FOnline, is class-free, and no one knows each others level. Also if someone is a "newb" or "miner" they most likely won't attack you first, where as a PKer will. Like I before, I don't think a hidden name is going to encourage or deter PKers (They are doing it now anyway). Regarding the actions of gang members, well this is something you have to work together as a gang to figure out, also screenshots can be Photoshopped and it usually never tells the whole story.
--- Quote from: Ned Logan ---I do not think that this is entirely bad idea to somehow bring the concept of general familiarity to game, but not this implementation...
Like I said in previous post, better would be if I the random string covered up part of the name, based on characters interaction with other players.
Lets say there is Alice and Bob.
Alice is the harpy of saloons, drinking at bars till morning, chatting with players in NCR, possibly picking their pockets when in opportunity.
Bob is a secretive loner who likes to hunt.
The players Alice talks to often would see her as "Alice", those who talked to her somewhat, but not really every day or so "Ali****", for Bob who never was in NCR she would be "********" - mystery.
As Bob comes to NCR bar, those who see him talking will start to see his name uncover.
This would also work, with actions like stealing, applying drugs, first aiding someone, starting shooting at someone etc (in various effects on the familiarness meter).
The familiarness could deteriorate during the time spend in game - lets say 1 character per 20 game days (1 real day).
This way the name colorizing wouldn't be entirely useless - if someone PKed you 3x and you have him in name colorizing, you sould be able to recognize him even month afterwards.
Also intelligence could affect this "face remembering".. :)
--- End quote ---
Other people might feel differently but, partially hidden names could possibly lead to impersonation and personally I don't think recognition should involve a grind. (How many times do you have to use first aid on someone before you know who the person is; people with long names are at a disadvantage).
--- Quote from: WNC ---option to allow permanent remembrance of your name to certain people (simulates your character knowing them, or telling them whenever they meet)
Random character strings change based on a duration unique to characters based on their Intelligence score. The player may not know your name, but the random one won't change for a while so they will know who you are.
--- End quote ---
The first suggestion, is already like the original idea, once you introduce yourself it is permanent, unless I am misinterpreting. The second, sounds good, maybe also tie in Charisma some way into this.
Ned Logan:
--- Quote from: JustGreat on August 11, 2010, 06:00:19 pm ---The scenario can be reversed and I can ask, since you don't know anything about him, why should you know his name. I guess this is just a preference of gameplay, but as been pointed out the latter increases roleplay.
If I wanted to disable name colorizing I would have made a suggestion about it, this really has less to do with name colorizing (though it is affected) then to intensify the gameplay.
What is a "newb" or "miner"? FOnline, is class-free, and no one knows each others level. Also if someone is a "newb" or "miner" they most likely won't attack you first, where as a PKer will. Like I before, I don't think a hidden name is going to encourage or deter PKers (They are doing it now anyway). Regarding the actions of gang members, well this is something you have to work together as a gang to figure out, also screenshots can be Photoshopped and it usually never tells the whole story.
--- End quote ---
You haven't convinced me this is a good implementation of the idea.
I don't think that remembering people by numbers intensifies gameplay, and it gives even more power to back-stabbing thieves and killer than they have in real life. If someone tries to kill me in real life, most of the time I can reasonably identify him which can lead to his capture... I see no way how this is accounted for in your idea.
--- Quote from: JustGreat on August 11, 2010, 06:00:19 pm ---Other people might feel differently but, partially hidden names could possibly lead to impersonation and personally I don't think recognition should involve a grind. (How many times do you have to use first aid on someone before you know who the person is; people with long names are at a disadvantage).
--- End quote ---
Impersonation could be avoided to some point by forcing automatically generated names, which would add to RP even more.
Recognition wouldn't involve grind, there could be a way one could give his ID forever to someone, like a photograph, but what my idea is about is (mostly undesired) disclosing of your ID to your surrounding depending on your actions.
And you got that one wrong - it would be the one who gets first aid getting to know his nurser, the reverse only small part.
JustGreat:
--- Quote from: Ned Logan ---You haven't convinced me this is a good implementation of the idea.
I don't think that remembering people by numbers intensifies gameplay, and it gives even more power to back-stabbing thieves and killer than they have in real life. If someone tries to kill me in real life, most of the time I can reasonably identify him which can lead to his capture... I see no way how this is accounted for in your idea.
--- End quote ---
The idea was not for people to remember others through a number, if you decide to become friends, you would know each others name. Like I also said previously, introduction would not be necessary as you have the option to flag someone until the string changes. Back-stabbing thieves (here I assume you mean people who pretend to be nice but then kill you in the wastes), cannot be avoided currently when you know a person's name. Your best bet with this system is to travel with people who introduced themselves, therefore you are not better or worse off relative to the current system.
You are saying that killers are given more power, with this system than the current, well lets look at plausible scenarios and see how much power if any do they gain.
- Current: A PK gang has control of a town (can be checked on PipBoy), and when you use Town Preview, you see well known PKers. You probably would not enter the town.
New: A PK gang has control of a town, and when you use Town Preview, and you see random players you don't know. Realistically you still probably won't enter the town.
- Current: An Anti-PK gang has control of a town, using Town Preview, you see well known Anti-PKers, so you decide to enter the town. Since you are not A PKer you do your thing in the town.
New: An Anti-PK gang has control of a town, using Town Preview, you see random players (though heavily armed). Now it could be two possibilities, one, is that it is the Anti-PK gang, or two it is some PKers, causing trouble. If, two happens and you die, well, you can tag them, and for certain amount of hours you know there are PKers in the town upon using Town Preview. Now, lets say one happens, you have a chat with the Anti-PK gang and introduce each other. Next time you enter the town, it would work like the current system, maybe there will be new people you don't know, but you can introduce each other so it isn't a problem. Now when ever you see random heavily armed players in Town Preview it is a good assumption that they are PKers.
- Current: You meet a person in the mine (or the wastes), who is armed heavily, you don't know, so I am assuming you begin running away. Three possible options here. (1) He manages to kill you, so you add his name to name colorizer. (2) He shouts "I am not PKer", when you go back he waits for you to mine, then kills you, you add his name to name colorizer. (3) He shouts "I am not PKer", you mine in peace and leave.
New: You meet a person in the mine (or the wastes), you don't know who is armed heavily, so I am assuming you begin running away. (1) He manages to kill you, you tag him for future reference if you decide to come back into the mine a little later. (2) He shouts "I am not PKer", when you go back, when you go back you ask to introduce himself, if he says no, you peacefully leave the mine, if he says yes and kills you after you mine you add his name to name colorizer. (3) He shouts "I am not PKer", you ask him to introduce himself, he says yes, and you mine in peace, next time maybe you introduce yourself to him, if you see him in the wastes.
As you see, if you die, you die regardless if the name is hidden or not, and it would be difficult only in the beginning when you don't know as many people. If you have more scenarios that I might have overlooked, mention them.
--- Quote from: Ned Logan ---Impersonation could be avoided to some point by forcing automatically generated names, which would add to RP even more.
Recognition wouldn't involve grind, there could be a way one could give his ID forever to someone, like a photograph, but what my idea is about is (mostly undesired) disclosing of your ID to your surrounding depending on your actions.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I see nothing wrong with this, if generated names would be implemented, however that is up to the Devs.
Ned Logan:
JustGreat:
Ok, I've taken a while to think about your suggestion. I don't think it is possible to account for every scenario, best would be just to try it for a week.
There is a problem that some people would like to be known by everyone - for example a leader of TTTLA would like every newb to know him, so when they first arrive to BH and from town preview see him there in the main entrance, they know the town is secured by TTTLA so they can safely enter and do their thing, unless TTTLA considers them as outlaws. It would be hugely impractical and boring to stand in NCR and wait for every newb to pass and do the introduction kung-fu on them. So I think this could be solved by electronic notice-boards (imagine 1m tall pipboy) in guarded cities which would have central database of faces, and if you wanted everyone to know you, you could upload your ID there and anyone who updated their database in their pipboy by interacting with terminal in any city would know you.
I also would want some functionality of a mugshot - also integrated in the pipboy terminal database... wait... doesn't it sound like name colorizing? (even better - integrated in game!)
There would be no need to display some weird strings like "Player63643" (I hate the idea of this) - the client could all manage it internally, the tagging etc, and just display "wastelander".
So what this would bring? Since all well known outlaws, deliquents, lawyers and outlaw hunters would have mugshots in the database, not much would change for them... On the other hand newbs and alts would experience a change... it is possible that some kinds of chars would essentially become worthless for their purpose after being put in database, so there could be interesing game of hiding your identity. A thief would not only have to successfully steal, but also successfully disappear unseen.
I really don't know, it probably would be fun system. My suggestion about unintentionally revealing your identity would be accounted by the mugshot thing, so I am content with that.
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