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Author Topic: Future of Stealing  (Read 14460 times)

Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2010, 04:05:41 pm »

I would be happy if i could tag someone as a thief. I hate to run away from thief, when i know (and my character too - he was robbed by this thief before) what he is planning.
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Enzo

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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2010, 04:07:50 pm »

I would be happy if i could tag someone as a thief. I hate to run away from thief, when i know (and my character too - he was robbed by this thief before) what he is planning.

use namecolorizing... I have all thieves tagged with yellow color, so I can recognize them every time...
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Enzo Wolf
former President of Fenix Trading company
former Trading counsellor of former Gray Rock village :D
Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2010, 04:10:25 pm »

You get me wrong. Im talking about situation when i know who is a thief and i have to run away from him to prevent him from stealing. I would be happy when i could stop someone from stealing by tagging him/marking or something else.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 04:12:15 pm by Rejfyl »
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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2010, 04:21:07 pm »

Oh wow...

"we tend to fail stealing a single cap with even 300% steal,"
And yet you often easily steal rifles and heavy ore from peoples' back pockets in plain view of 3 guards and a shop keeper. And what do you lose when you fail a steal attempt? Oh that's right:

"we spawn at Klamath more often than you think. these days no one carries good items in NCR anyway we barely make any profit, and get shot often."
You get shot and lose nothing.. then from klamath its 5-10 minutes to get back to NCR.. less if you just kill yourself until you respawn closer. And you barely make a profit? Define profit please, because thieves don't really cost you anything you should be making 100% profit.

You forgot 1 vital thing, Time. You lose nothing? you always lose something. You lose time. People say they didn't pay for an object because they made it themself, they didnt pay in caps no, they paid in time. You waste incredible amounts of time as a thief, sure crafters and merchants do to. But thieves do to. Merchants see lots of scum everyday, why bother if it robs on of his costumers? chances are the thief will sell it for cheaper to the merchant anyway. Suiciding till you spawn closer? hah chances are you will spawn even further and waste more time, life isn't that easy.

" and there is the problem that it takes ages to actually level your thief character."
So guards, shopkeepers and players should respect your efforts by letting you walk around town stealing in front of everybody and going unpunished?

No it should allow me to rob people in front of everybody without anyone noticing. want to nerf stealing? don't. instead change it.
For example, change the way stealing chances work, if somoene wears 20 hunting rifles in his inventory it will be much easier to steal it from the guy than somoene who just crafted his first hunting rifle and wears it on his back.
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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2010, 10:07:43 pm »

You seem to underestimate how annoying the life from a thief is, we tend to fail stealing a single cap with even 300% steal, and really, we spawn at Klamath more often than you think. these days no one carries good items in NCR anyway we barely make any profit, and get shot often. and there is the problem that it takes ages to actually level your thief character.

My experience exactly.
I've been leveling my thief character for about 2 months now (no exploiting, so it takes long) and am a few 1000 xp away from level 21.
It's hard, but I have to say it was the build that was the most fun to level.

Thieving at vendors places should be considered the same as blocking, because it makes vendors inaccessible (if you dont want to lose your stuff), and in real situation, no shop owner will let the thief steal in his shop...

Vendors are perfectly accessible.
I have no problem trading, even when thieves are around, although sometime it takes longer as you have to run off from time to time.
The only thing that needs to be dealt with here are the thieves who keep harassing the same player, trying to steal from them over and over and following them around.

Oh wow...

"we tend to fail stealing a single cap with even 300% steal,"
And yet you often easily steal rifles and heavy ore from peoples' back pockets in plain view of 3 guards and a shop keeper. And what do you lose when you fail a steal attempt? Oh that's right:

"we spawn at Klamath more often than you think. these days no one carries good items in NCR anyway we barely make any profit, and get shot often."
You get shot and lose nothing.. then from klamath its 5-10 minutes to get back to NCR.. less if you just kill yourself until you respawn closer. And you barely make a profit? Define profit please, because thieves don't really cost you anything you should be making 100% profit.

" and there is the problem that it takes ages to actually level your thief character."
So guards, shopkeepers and players should respect your efforts by letting you walk around town stealing in front of everybody and going unpunished?
Read the last bit of my original post again.

"Stop nerfing stealing, it's hard enough now."
I'm suggesting punishments for getting caught being an ass in town (not just stealing) and a way for people to defend themselves from prolific and careless thieves. I'm not suggesting the steal skill be nerfed.

Being a thief is rather unprofitable when you look at profit and the time needed to get it.
As long as thieves don't bother guards and shop keepers, they indeed should leave them alone.
Most likely thieves are also their biggest regulars when it comes to trading.

You're suggesting thieving gets nerved, implying the steal skill gets nerved.
It's hard the way it is, try for yourself to find out.
Which is what I did.

Right now thievery don't seem to have any other meaning than give very limited source of excitement to its player. Because of severe consequences from getting caught steal >200 is recommended and with that you can't do anything else but steal. You can't use the weapons you steal, you can't craft, you can't fight. The whole thief-class is unfinished, it doesn't even have a real place in the game world. It would be all the same if the whole skill just ceased from existing.

Before you start wondering should using steal skill be easier or harder you should think about what's the point of stealing in first place.

If I remember correctly from my thief build, around 180% in stealing makes you quite good, over 220 it's really good.
I'm over 250 now with my build and don't see much changes with around 220.

Thief builds are a way to support your faction with items and caps to get a base, buy equipment and resources, mercs, etc.
It's a very useful and fun way to do so.
The point of stealing is to get stuff and caps and to have fun.
Only real problem with stealing is the whining of the victims.
Not suggesting you are, but in my experience the biggest whiners are other thieves, pk's and people acting like assholes.
Descent people only seem to warn others for thieves and shoot them when they're unprotected.
Off course there are exceptions.

I think the problem here is the similar like in other skills. Players push their characters up to 300% and don't have much points left for other skills, which leads to a "thief powerbuild", you cant do anything other then stealing. Cap the skill limit at 200% at maximum. Then, there'd be a few points left, to invest in some basic gun skills etc. Otherwise, everyone pulling every single skillpoint into one none- combat skill and then whining that levelling is too hard/thiefes only can do one thing proper...  ::)

Well.

It will only lead to a different powerbuild, the "sneaking thief" which still can do not much more than stealing.
Personally I love how hard it is to level a thief with no combat skill.
Mine leveled pretty nicely due to some points in FA (which is a nice skill to combine with FA as people might have seen you heal others  ;D).



As I said somewhere earlier in this reply, the only thing that needs to be dealt with is thieves harassing the same player over and over till they leave the map or till the thief gets killed.
Some kind of increased cooldown timer for thieves who steal from the same player 3 times or more in a row needs to be implemented.
To make it easy, no difference between npc and pc in this case.
I'm open for any other suggestion that stops thieves from following players all over the map, even though they know the player is on to them.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 10:09:39 pm by HertogJan »
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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2010, 10:30:44 pm »

Ideally, for trades I like to meet in unpopulated cities in discreet location I would do dealings in New Reno all day, but most traders are scared to come and meet, like honestly if you are not sure of a trader, bring along some hired muscle.
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Swords will cut you wide fucking open!
Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2010, 10:45:35 pm »

Ideally, for trades I like to meet in unpopulated cities in discreet location I would do dealings in New Reno all day, but most traders are scared to come and meet, like honestly if you are not sure of a trader, bring along some hired muscle.

Setting up trades through the forums is saver than doing it in game.
If people see an unreliable person offering trades, they can warn other players about it.
In game that's not always possible.
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Janusz2238

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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2010, 10:47:12 pm »

I think the problem here is the similar like in other skills. Players push their characters up to 300% and don't have much points left for other skills, which leads to a "thief powerbuild", you cant do anything other then stealing.



Its my character. As you can seem I have a good energy weapons skill, steal, and medicine skills. Actuall I am the retired thief, becouse crafting medicines is more profitable.
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Polskie Pustkowia http://forum.newfmc.pl/
Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2010, 03:29:27 am »

An example of autopush:
Guy1 walks into store, sees Guy2 standing next to merchant obviously not buying anything so he tags Guy2 as a thief. Guy2 can't steal from Guy1 because he automatically shoves him away.

Another example of autopush:
You are a smart thief and waited outside the store, you see that Guy2 has been tagged with autopush, you laugh and use steal on Guy1 in front of everybody and get away. It worked! But it probably won't work a second time.

Now sign on to your other account and collect the items you stole! Yay 100% profit still safe from the scary steal nerf!

You're suggesting thieving gets nerved, implying the steal skill gets nerved.
It's hard the way it is, try for yourself to find out.
Which is what I did.

So did I, it was really boring and just not for me. I made about 1400 caps in 2 hours then never played as a thief again.

I'm open for any other suggestion that stops thieves from following players all over the map, even though they know the player is on to them.

Autopush! you can only tag one thief at a time, like following. I don't give a shit about the 5 low level thieves at NCR bazaar, it's fun to shoot them. But when a level 21 thief shows up, steals from everybody and even steals all my bait it gets annoying.
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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2010, 11:53:19 am »

An example of autopush:
Guy1 walks into store, sees Guy2 standing next to merchant obviously not buying anything so he tags Guy2 as a thief. Guy2 can't steal from Guy1 because he automatically shoves him away.

...

Autopush! you can only tag one thief at a time, like following. I don't give a shit about the 5 low level thieves at NCR bazaar, it's fun to shoot them. But when a level 21 thief shows up, steals from everybody and even steals all my bait it gets annoying.

How do you know that guy isn't buying anything?
you don't, at most you can guess.

Autopush sounds nice as long as it's limited to 1 thief.
Even level 21 thieves fail.
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LagMaster

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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2010, 04:04:51 pm »

Shopowners: "GET OUT OF MY STORE, THIEF!" in big red writing would be awesome, why should the thief be allowed to hang around shops freely while other people have to wait? Surely the shopowner must get annoyed that his clients are being scared away or robbed by all the loiterers in his store.
i agree whit this 1ideea, if i see a guy stoling from 1 of my customers, i whoud ban him from my shop
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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2010, 04:42:52 pm »

i agree whit this 1ideea, if i see a guy stoling from 1 of my customers, i whoud ban him from my shop

As said before, that thief might be 1 of the most loyal traders and might actually be a much better customer.
I have a thief account, but I also use it to trade a lot too.
Not being able to do that, would make thief buils a lot less useful.
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kraskish

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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2010, 04:45:12 pm »

i agree whit this 1ideea, if i see a guy stoling from 1 of my customers, i whoud ban him from my shop

Me too. Theft is nerfed wrong. Random respawn should be returned back to town spawning and maybe disabled for town during TC. The thieves should be somehow colorized/marked. Using optional name colorizing is not a solution for everyone. Name colorizing should work differently, marking someone as a thief option would be good (after getting 50-100 marks everyone would see the specific color) or shouting yes, that would be good. Im all for non-griefing game
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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2010, 05:51:06 pm »

Me too. Theft is nerfed wrong. Random respawn should be returned back to town spawning and maybe disabled for town during TC. The thieves should be somehow colorized/marked. Using optional name colorizing is not a solution for everyone. Name colorizing should work differently, marking someone as a thief option would be good (after getting 50-100 marks everyone would see the specific color) or shouting yes, that would be good. Im all for non-griefing game

Random spawning should be 100% random.
I regularly respawn at the same spawn 2 sometimes 3 times in a row.
For instance if I respawn near SF and I want to go to SF, I might end up shot in an encounter.
When I respawn, it's in the respawn area near SF again.

Name colorizing is up to players themselves.
You might tag people for a completely different reason than I do.
If you want to share tagged people, use namecolorizing.txt.
We all have people tagged as friends who are tagged as enemy by others.
Also a suggestion to share such things (combined with reputation I think) was already rejected as it's open for abuse.
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Nyan

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Re: Future of Stealing
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2010, 11:06:10 am »

The man above speaks the truth, which shouldn't be bewilderment to anyone as he is a man of true wisdom and consideration. One doesn't need any other skill at 300% to be successful as far as I know. Thieves on the other hand must max their beloved skill and still are about to fail sooner or later.

As for the human man person who posted about losing nothing: You silly goose, you. If a thief steals from a crafter or a warrior class person they only can loose their time. That is all. A crafter will craft new items, the warrior of great strength and skill will acquire another weapon of kill and destruction, the thief will have to regenerate self and try to steal another item. We are all meant to do our job. That's it. Everyone who disagrees with it is a crying manchild or a real underage of no world understanding. Thank you.
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