Other > Closed suggestions

Big guns, now only walking !

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JovankaB:
Realism of weight is not a good argument, it's a game and it's supposed to be interesting and fun not realistic. After all miniguns can't be carried at all, they are mounted on vehicles and need power supply to fire, so if you bring realism as an argument, you should support removing miniguns.

I think difference in run speed based on weight of stuff you hold in both hands could bring some tactics and make guns like SMGs and shotguns a bit more useful. The problem is, there are or only 2 states: you run or you walk, and the difference is just to big. I think it could be like: -2 * weight of items you hold in hands %, so for example holding a minigun would be -25% run speed penalty, P90 would be -7%.

I don't think hiding items in inventory would be a problem, because it takes time and Action Points to move stuff from/to inventory + you have to stand still for a second. It would make quick pockets perk a bit more useful.

I see 2 problems here: run animations would look a bit silly, and maybe it would be hard to implement in turn based mode (though TB doesn't have run/walk anyway).

RavenousRat:

--- Quote from: JovankaB on June 24, 2010, 12:31:43 pm ---Realism of weight is not a good argument, it's a game and it's supposed to be interesting and fun not realistic. After all miniguns can't be carried at all, they are mounted on vehicles and need power supply to fire, so if you bring realism as an argument, you should support removing miniguns.

I think difference in movement speed based on weight of stuff you hold in both hands could bring some tactics and make guns like SMGs and shotguns a bit more useful (along with Strength attribute and carry perks). The problem is, there or only 2 states: you run or you walk, and the difference is just to big. I think it could be like: -2 * weight of items you hold in hands %, so for example holding a minigun would be -25% run speed penalty, P90 would be -7%.

I don't think hiding items in inventory would be a problem, because it takes time and Action Points to move stuff from/to inventory.

I see 2 problems here: run animations would look a bit silly, and it would be hard to implement in turn based mode.

--- End quote ---
In TB weight can affect your sequence, and hight carry weight will force you to spend 2 APs per hex (very high weight).
In RT it'll affect your movement speed, but it'll be possible (may be) only with 3D.

Nice_Boat:

--- Quote from: Izual on June 24, 2010, 12:07:58 pm ---Yeah Nice_Boat, better not troll here. You have no arguments, that's all, I don't care and you don't care ;). Weight of minigun is quite wrong, look at the .frm of a guy wielding a minigun, and tell me if it looks like you can run with that, or if its weight is really 11 kgs. Animal Mother has something like a M60, not an avenger, and seriously, he'd obviously run slower than a sniper. Plus, I'm taking as a reference FOnline graphics, not Stanley Kubrick's movies. But yes, don't vote for a suggestion that would make your BG alt less powerful ;)

--- End quote ---

Ok, so sadly you weren't trolling.

First of all, the weight is more or less correct.
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Machine-Guns/GE_XM214_Minigun.htm

5.56, 6 barrels - the closest to 6 barrel 5mm from Fallout - weights 14 kg. The one in Fallout weights 12.7 kg, which would be realistic if you forget about the fact that using a minigun as an infantry weapon is ridiculous because of feeding/recoil.

The animations prove nothing. Both sniper rifle and assault rifle are fired from the hip, does it look like you could hit anyone with that? How about in the eye? Besides - noticed how the weapon "disappears" once you start running? Well, that probably means it's being lowered/slinged/whatever, and since Minigun is neither exceptionally large nor heavy, there's no reason why it should be so much more cumbersome than a sniper or laser rifle. The only thing you wouldn't be able to do with that would be firing while prone - Fallout Tactics had it quite right.



Next, the "ad personam" argument about me having a BG alt. If you ever bothered to check, you'd notice that I mostly play EW builds. Yes, I have a psycho-BG getting all covered in dust by now, but I use it for like 10% of the action I take part in. So there you go, once again your rationale is misguided.



Finally, and most importantly (because the things mentioned above are mostly trivial) gameplay and balance. It's big, so let's divide stuff for our convenience:
1. Fighting system on 2238 in general. It's about maneuver. Most action is determined by maneuver, the ability to flank, concentrate force quickly, coordinate et cetera. Which means running. Moreover, in a microscale, most encounters are determined by simple maneuvers too. The ability to run to the other side of the street to zap a guy before he hides. The ability to run back to your team once you're being shot at. The ability to run up and get into range. You can't do any of that? You're basically worthless. Playing a BG is not about having raw firepower, because honestly you're inferior to mostly anything at long range and stuff gets equal on midrange. It's about blitz tactics. It's about the ability to quickly advance upon your enemy and shoot him point blank seconds after breaking cover. The emphasis is on the word "quickly". Disabling running would mean BG would be effective at blocking doorways only. I don't think anyone would be happy with playing a somewhat sophisticated landmine.
2. The misguided notion that BG are overpowered. It shows its ugly head each time the permament NCR dwellers discuss PvP. It's bullshit for two reasons:
a) It's expensive to maintain. Ridiculously so.
b) BG don't stun. Don't knockdown. Don't instakill. Depend on the distance a lot. See where I'm going with that? It's a niche weapon for specific situations. It's nowhere near the flexibility of a sniper/laser rifle.
And there's also this thing that people are using all kinds of builds in PvP these days. You see a lot of EW, a lot of BG and some SG. Hell, even some sneak-grenadiers. I wonder how many BG players you'd see if they were forced to act like cripples. You don't even have to implement your suggestion to see how much it'd suck. Just make a BG build and ask your teammate to cripple your leg before you go in.
3. Your TC movies, which are the only rationale you provided to support your suggestion. I say screw that and watch some Red Dot stuff instead. They go 100% jet snipers and kick some serious ass in some of them. How about the infamous Modoc Fail? There was this flank full of snipers blowing stuff to bits and pieces with BG users helplessly hunkering behind the building or getting killed if they rushed. How about going to see TC today? You'd be surprised seeing how popular EW have recently got. But, as usual, it's just a matter of fashion and minor fine-tuning. This game is evolving, the builds are evolving - that's why you see change in popularity. The point being no class is superior to other classes, it's just that a member of this class thought up something friggin' good in the recent times and people have started copying it.



For all these reasons I thought you were trolling Izual. I just couldn't believe a sane person could come up with a suggestion this bad. Looks like I was mistaken. I'm starting to loose my faith at the times like these - if not for mankind, than certainly for this forum.

tl, dr; version:
This suggestion is shit and it belongs in the garbage bin.

Kharaam:
Maybe something like "limited time of running"? Stamina you know? So woth a big gun one could run for only 10 hexes for example, the he would get a timeout (dunno, 20 seconds?) this timeout would force him to walk, and then he could run again...

Nice_Boat:

--- Quote from: Kharaam on June 24, 2010, 12:47:32 pm ---Maybe something like "limited time of running"? Stamina you know? So woth a big gun one could run for only 10 hexes for example, the he would get a timeout (dunno, 20 seconds?) this timeout would force him to walk, and then he could run again...

--- End quote ---

And why would you want to make combat slower considering the fact that it being fast is the main reason people preffer it to TLA? But ok, implement that based on inventory encumberance. I'd love seeing the faces of all those silly snipers and EW dudes supporting this once they realise the edge in stamina they have from that is 5-10% at best.

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