Other > Suggestions
Grenade Topic
Kilgore:
--- Quote from: Solar on June 18, 2010, 10:13:18 am ---Fast Shot does nothing to bursters and grenade throwers ... ever.
--- End quote ---
Erm.. making "fast shot" not working for bursters would cause imbalance in current pvp.
Grenades are now fine: they aren't too powerful and also they aren't useless, they are quite effective while playing solo. Yet I see every now and again someone whines about grenades because he was killed.
Shit happens. If you now nerf grenades, then they will whine about being killed by a big gunner, so you will nerf big gunners, then they will whine about uber small gunners and so on..
Solar:
Plasma Gren / Avenger w/ AP - both Fast Shot BRoF
None 1.832706767
LJ 1.64943609
LA 1.64943609
LA2 1.64943609
CLJ 1.928571429
M 1.633928571
M2 1.531808036
Tesla 0.368303571
CA 1.074953008
CA2 1.301330249
BCA 1.006362059
Plasma Gren / Avenger w/ AP - both BRoF only
None 1.466165414
LJ 1.319548872
LA 1.319548872
LA2 1.319548872
CLJ 1.542857143
M 1.307142857
M2 1.225446429
Tesla 0.294642857
CA 0.859962406
CA2 1.041064199
BCA 0.805089647
This is comparing to THE best damage dealer on the game. Plasmas would still be fine.
--- Quote ---Wrong. Throwers can't level up by eyecritting with spears/throwing knives, which makes them a bitch to bring to 21. Bursters can't use Bozar, which would be epic for crit-based BG on jet... and most BG these days are crit-based to some extent. The "harder to level" argument works here as well - firing a Bozar 100 times is waaaay cheaper than firing a minigun or a rocket launcher. I don't think I need to tell you how it limits SG bursters, cause that's obvious.
--- End quote ---
A 50% DPS increase traded against not being able to level with spears (Levelling on Molerats will be fixed anyway) is no trade off.
Crazy:
--- Quote from: Solar on June 19, 2010, 11:27:48 pm ---Plasma Gren / Avenger w/ AP - both Fast Shot BRoF
None 1.832706767
LJ 1.64943609
LA 1.64943609
LA2 1.64943609
CLJ 1.928571429
M 1.633928571
M2 1.531808036
Tesla 0.368303571
CA 1.074953008
CA2 1.301330249
BCA 1.006362059
Plasma Gren / Avenger w/ AP - both BRoF only
None 1.466165414
LJ 1.319548872
LA 1.319548872
LA2 1.319548872
CLJ 1.542857143
M 1.307142857
M2 1.225446429
Tesla 0.294642857
CA 0.859962406
CA2 1.041064199
BCA 0.805089647
This is comparing to THE best damage dealer on the game. Plasmas would still be fine.
A 50% DPS increase traded against not being able to level with spears (Levelling on Molerats will be fixed anyway) is no trade off.
--- End quote ---
Huh am I the only one who don't understand anything at your numbers?
Also, I have to agree with Kilgore and Nice Boat: they're right.
Solar:
For example a plasma grenade will do +53% DPS on metal armour compared to an Avenger Minigun currently.
(To put that in context, thats about the difference between a Greese Gun and an Avenger)
Nice_Boat:
--- Quote from: Solar on June 19, 2010, 11:37:58 pm ---For example a plasma grenade will do +53% DPS on metal armour compared to an Avenger Minigun currently.
--- End quote ---
3 Avenger bursts = a kill
5 plasma grenades = not a kill
You won't throw more because the target will be on the run. Oh, and he could always run towards you and burst you point-blank while you hurt yourself with your own grenades (and since most sneak-throwers don't go heavy on armour that's a nasty and effective tactic). Numbers and theorycrafting =/= everything. Real time =/= turn based. You would be right if plasma grenades caused knockback, but they don't - and they have very weak range. Basically, they're not the killer of this game and they're far from being top tier weapons, for reasons already mentioned. The only reason they're used at all is because they're the only weapon that goes along with sneak well. You mindlessly tinker with them - you break a weapon, therefore upsetting balance.
Bottom line: they're good as they are, there's no reason to change them. Same with burst builds.
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