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[baelzaron]

Laser Rifle ignore psycho

SG sniper wont be seen by a psycho user, while an EW sniper will give away their location

Revealing where you are with each shot is not what I would consider a minor consideration

No finesse, I assume SR and GR, .223s and 2mmECs do not have "penetrate" perk
Weapon (min/max) Damage per shot; Damage per AP; Damage per AP + BRoF

MAMK2 (+ toughness x2) Normal 8/45 Laser 7/80
LR  3/8 ; 0.43/1.14 ; 0.5/1.33
SR  4.5/19.5; 0.56/2.43; 0.64/2.79 (AKA 30-113% and 28-110% more DPAP, avg +70%)
(and if bullet/gun rarity is a "minor" consideration)
GR  27/39 ; 3.86/5.57 ; 4.5/8.6 (AKA 389-799% and 547-800% more DPAP then LR)

BA (+toughness x2) Normal 12/50 Laser 8/70 Plasma 7/60
LR 5.1/12.6 ; 0.73/1.8 ; 0.85/2.1
SR 1.4/15.4 ; 0.18/1.9 ; 0.2/2.2 (AKA [-75]-[+5]% and [-76]-[+4]% avg is ~2/3 DPAP compared to LR or LR does 50% more)
XL70E3 (AP) 6/10 ; 0.8/1.37 ; 0.93/1.6 (AKA [-24]-[+9]%, avg 9/10 DPAP compared to LR)

(when range is a "minor" consideration)
PR 9.2/23.2 ; 1.31/3.3 ; 1.53/3.87
14mm 10/20 ; 1.66/3.3 ; 2/4 (0-31% better then PR, 90-127% better then LR)

LAMK2 (+toughness x2) Normal 7/35 Laser 1/20 Plasma 1/10
LR 19/39 ; 2.7/5.6 ; 3.2/6.5
SR 6/23 ; 0.75/2.9 ; 0.86/3.29 (AKA [-72]-[-48]%, avg is ~2/5 DPAP compared to LR or LR does 150% more)

(And when we factor out range)
PR 32/58 ; 4.57/8.29
.223 pistol 16/24 ; 2.3/3.43

So Solar would be right that EW is fine if your strictly griefing bluesuits and leather wearers.
CA can be handled better with the wide assortment of SG guns/ammo.
Metal armor rocks lasers and Tesla hasn't even been considered yet...

[Solar]

You haven't factored everything in. Who is firing snipers or lasers without going for crits? 

The increase to bypasses and the nerf to insta-death gave lasers a big boost.

Very minor considerations indeed.

Laser rifle does more damage to every Armour type except Tesla (does less) and Metal Mk II (does about equal).

Weigh against this that it is slightly more difficult to hit with, where hitting is generally pretty easy for a decently made char and needs 1 more point in Str.

A worthwhile trade for +25% damage to CA? Of course.

EW are fine in comparison to SG.

That doesn't include finesse, but again finesse would favour Lasers and make them even better.

Lasers are much better for Bluesuits, LJ, LA, LA MkII, CLJ
Lasers are better for CA, CA MkII, BA
Lasers are just as good vs Metal and Metal MkII
Lasers are worse vs Tesla

They also ignore Psycho and get more shots (so more secondary crit results). Nothing wrong with Lasers for PvP.

[Midnight]

"CA can be handled better with the wide assortment of SG guns/ammo." Ahahah which SG do you speak of?
Except the snipers there is only one SG that can be good enough to be an issue for a guy in CA and it's the P90c, one gun don't make an assortment

And if you use a sniper anyway you go for crits, and on this point Laser Rifle is so much more stronger.

[baelzaron]

If the crit table was public and less subject to change it would be easier to consider that.

14mm does more to BA then any laser weapon with non-bypass crits (calculations shown), but if you want to play the finesse/bypass arguement..

With Bonus Ranged Damagex2/Finesse against BA or MA only bypasses do any significant damage anyways and it turns out like this
Magnum JHP (48-66 avg 57) > Plasma Rifle (39-69 avg 54) > Laser Rifle (29-54 avg 41) > XL70XE JHP (32-46 avg 39)

[Midnight]

Plasma, 14mm and magnum are bad weapons for a high critical based build like snipers cause they have poor ranges and no accuracy, which is not that easy for aiming the eyes.

Crit tables doesn't seem to be changed that much compared to original, i only know about nerfing of insta kill which is a good thing, but all rolls get at least a x1.5 damages (yeah it's divided by 2) and you can go up to x4 in the eyes, which is insane in the case of a Laser Rifle and if you have better criticals i remember you triger each hit a bypass or 4/5 of the time ...

[yoz]

Solar, can you comment on the possibility of making the FN FAL HPFA fire the entire magazine in one burst as the description says it does.

[Solar]

The description is much more likely to be changed, I'd guess.

[yoz]

Lol.

But seriously, when I decided to make a small gunner, a big part of that decision I made based on that description, thinking that I will have some versatility by being able to do aimed shots and by being able to do good bursts with the HPFA.

Big gunners kill small gunners in 2 bursts. Small gunners can't kill or knock out a big gunner in 2 shots. They are not as powerful as big gunners if they go for aimed shots and they will not be as powerful as big gunners if they go for HPFA burst shots, so why not at least give them some versatility?

[Solar]

Yup, ARs need a boost, but I doubt it'd be firing their entire magazine. FN FAL stuff would be a fix to 7.62mm I think

[Midnight]

Yeah a fixe could be great cause all 7.62 weapons are desperatly weak, even the M60 (compared to avenger).
But still this ammos will remain really rares.

Maybe making them AP would be a good start to be some match against 0.223 and 5mm AP.

[yoz]

Sorry. What are ARs?

[Solar]

Assult Rifles, so Assault Rifles themselves, FN FALs, XL70

[yoz]

Ooh.

So you like the idea of the FN FAL HPFA firing the entire magazine?

[Midnight]

Yup, ARs need a boost, but I doubt it'd be firing their entire magazine. FN FAL stuff would be a fix to 7.62mm I think

It's 4 posts up ...

[kttdestroyer]

Well, i think FN FAL could use an upgrade, if one thinks that 20 bulelts are too much then why not make it 15 and extend mag to 30. But, i think 20 bullet would do okey, not too good, not too bad.