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Sneak

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Sius:

--- Quote from: Drakonis on May 08, 2010, 12:14:59 pm ---Dude, seriously- what about plasma granade bursts? Sneak granade bursters sounds to me like a "new way to go"  :/

--- End quote ---

And isn't that the point? Make new ways how to play? How many grenadiers are there today? And even with this feature sneak is still only small difference in real fights since you have to get really close to your victim and in order to remain unnoticed you have to come from behind and that almost impossible in PvP. Only chance such "class" could have is to fight on tight places but only maps that can supply this are Reding and BH. Rest are more or less open spaced and snipe/bg paradise.

FischiPiSti:
One big sticky per grand topics please, there are sneak threads allready.

No 1 and 2 has been talked about and should be done, but the .223 pistol is too powerfull to not have a sneak penalty on it
No 3 is allready implemented
No 4 is OP. If you receive a sneak penalty after each attack, then fine. But throwing 20 knifes, or 20 needler rounds without beeing seen? Exploit heaven.

What sneak REALLY needs imo is:
1 AC bonus when sneak is active. HtH evade does not work AT ALL, at least this would balance out that hole a bit. I can understand why the "end of turn ac bonus" isnt working, but i dont understand the problems behind the skill/12 ac bonus part :/
2 Sneak not breaking when you dodge. Seriously why does sneak break when the enemy targeting you has 1% hit chance, critically missing and weapon exploding in his hands. Sneak should only break if you are hit, or you attack.
3 Ability to re-sneak when out of combat even if seen. Example: You attack, sneak breaks. Cannot resneak because combat is open for 10 seconds.
3+1 Ability to resneak in TB, when you are not seen.

Ombra:
Is it "grenadiers complaining day"?

I really don't understand wth you have to whine about.
I get killed by Plasma Grenadier even with 220 HP without single chance of reaction.

BRoF + Fast Shot + 2x Action Boy + 10 AGI = 6 Plasma grenade in 2 seconds, and goodbye cruel world.


I also have a suggestion, as stated in my usual HtH Topic:
- Sneak should be exclusive for HtH fighters.
 :)

Gnoff:

--- Quote from: FischiPiSti on May 08, 2010, 01:24:30 pm ---No 1 and 2 has been talked about and should be done, but the .223 pistol is too powerfull to not have a sneak penalty on it
No 3 is allready implemented
No 4 is OP. If you receive a sneak penalty after each attack, then fine. But throwing 20 knifes, or 20 needler rounds without beeing seen? Exploit heaven.

What sneak REALLY needs imo is:
1 AC bonus when sneak is active. HtH evade does not work AT ALL, at least this would balance out that hole a bit. I can understand why the "end of turn ac bonus" isnt working, but i dont understand the problems behind the skill/12 ac bonus part :/
2 Sneak not breaking when you dodge. Seriously why does sneak break when the enemy targeting you has 1% hit chance, critically missing and weapon exploding in his hands. Sneak should only break if you are hit, or you attack.
3 Ability to re-sneak when out of combat even if seen. Example: You attack, sneak breaks. Cannot resneak because combat is open for 10 seconds.
3+1 Ability to resneak in TB, when you are not seen.

--- End quote ---

Ok what I said was silent weapons would not break sneak when used, I never said that you could use a pistol and have your sneak not break, just simply able to sneak with no penalty due to the weapons size, once you fire your gun sneak breaks cause ya know the loud bang would kind of give you away. As far as knives and other silent weapons not breaking sneak I see nothing wrong with that, if you're standing there and getting hit within 15 hexes(max range of knives) and not looking for the thrower then that would be your fault. It's not like knives do insane damage I wouldn't consider 6-16 dmg overpowered.
As far as armor having an effect on sneaking, are you sure? Because I've seen quite a few people appear out of nowhere wearing metal armor. Your suggestions about sneak also make sense and should be added though. Like the HTH evade could easily be made to where if you have nothing in your equ hand slot you get a bonus to AC all the time this would at least let some hth guys get into melee range before being shot to death.

Gnoff:

--- Quote from: Sius on May 08, 2010, 10:17:14 am ---I will skip everything else and ask right away: "Why should knife be sneak friendly weapon while grenade not?"

I agree that we should be able to attack and sneak at the same time IF we use proper combat methods (unarmed/mele/throwing/SG with silencer...) but the thing I don't get is why grenades should not be on the list. When you compare knife, minigun and grenade then its obvious that minigun is heavy, loud and hard to operate gun that will definitely compromise your ability to attack and sneak at the same time. On the other hand knife is small, quick and silent weapon. But grenade is loud but the source of the noise don't come from the attacker (like when you are shooting with minigun) but it explodes under your targets feets. Sure its noisy and people gonna notice it but the fact something is exploding and you can see effects of explosions miles away is enough to know that attacker is in X hexes radius around the explosion. There is no need to uncover him from sneak for that.

--- End quote ---

The reason why I stated that your sneak should break after throwing a grenade would be balance reasons. Being able to stay in sneak and keep throwing grenades would basically be no different than a guy sneaking up to you with a minigun and bursting you 2x. Plasma grenades for instance do 40-90 dmg per grenade, if you could stay in stealth the whole time you could pelt the unsuspecting guy numerous times without him being able to even run away. 

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