Other > General Game Discussion
PvP constitution proposal vote
Lordus:
--- Quote from: Johnny Nuclear on May 09, 2010, 02:47:58 pm ---ahh now i know why there arent any posts by PvP players, its because solar deleted it all.
--- End quote ---
And you forget, I am also PvP player, IMO same quality like you. Only reason, why i am not fighting is because of school duties.
So, if you are brain damaged, i will repeat, make yourself topic for whiners, here put only constructive posts. It is so hard to understand???
-----------------
-----------------
How are we going to make it so that every character has equal chances to pvp effectively?
I will not change current SPECIAL and PERK system, i will try to make changes in weapons area, and give them more abilities.
My idea:
1) Create character - this will set the mantinels of your future PvP combat style
2) Arm yourself - this will give you possibilites of PvP combat styles
3) Use your personal skills (not character one) - your character and weapons use will depend mainly on you
---------------------------------
1) Create character .. more universal or less universal.
a) more universal characters will be able to use effectively more kind of weapons, maybe across the weapon skills
b) less universal character (specialized) will be able to use effectively only one kind of weapon, so they will be perfect in one kind of situation, but they will fail in another. So they will need backup or teamates to support them.
2) Arm yourself.
In every weapon class you wll have choice to take at least 2 weapons with different play style ability (maybe different perks).
3) Kind of clasess created by combination of PvP build and weapons.
I.e. if you have BG skill, you are able to be soldier of 2 classes, if you change your weapon.
a) SNIPERS
SG snipers and EW snipers. They are kind of specialized character, but they can also use other weapons. Like i described before, instakill should be specil kind of eyeshot, so you need to wait 2-3 until your gun will shot on enemy, so this kind of shot will not be for rushing.
b) Hit n Run
SMG weapon class, they can reload their AP even if they are moving and firing. They have less distance than assault riffles, but almost the same as big guns (big guns have longer distance, but they are effective only at limited range - 20 hex).
c) Assault rifles
Weapons with average damage, but with many possibilities (night sight, attached grenade launcher - you need throw skill too -, laser sights, silencers...). You can modifi basic type with this kind of stuff. Their fire line is very constant (distance), also they can use aimshot (not eyeshot) so they can slow enemy or they can cripple him, if they are lucky.
d) LSW .. kind of assault rifle for big gunners.. no penalty for running, quite bigger damage than As. riffles, but fire line is quite decreasing (distance). They have not ability to aim or to use upgrades
e) Tanks .. with miniguns.. unable to run with gun with active slot, but the biggest firepower to 20 hex distance. They can chose type of ammo they will shoot realtime by swithinng the type without penalty of losing AP. Their reload time si very big, but they have very big magazines (240) ammo, so they dont need to reload often. Ideal for defense, bad for attack.
f) supportive weapons :
SG grenate launcher (area damage insted of one person damage),
Rocket launchers (not a biggun skill, but traps?throwing?) so even a smallgunner or ew player should use this weapon if he invest enough points into other skill. (shells are very heavy, reload time is very long, shell is very expensive, but it does big damage, even if you have 95 percent chance to hit, you dont hit target, but it does also area damage, so it is not so big problem. Like a sniper weapon, you need a time before you shoot, you cant run with this weapon in active slot).
g) medics
h) demoexperts
---------------------------------> as i described, if you change your weapon, you will change your class and play style.
So we have to balance playstyles (combat class) first, weapons an other will be in second wave.
IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER IDEA or YOU THINK THAT THERE CAN EXIST ANOTHER KIND OF COMBAT CLASS, type it here. I think that this is good way how to start. Create idea of combat class and we can put it in the existing one or reduce another.
Then we can modify the weapons or skills needs to each playstyle.
gordulan:
What about Specialist Class.
1. Massive ability to sneak, able to get up close and personal with enemies.
2. Cannot handle any ranged weapons, except for the Shotguns and Short ranged pistols.
3. Masters of Melee/HtH, large crit chance, if behind enemy when attacking, causes an isntant backstab/Neckbreaker (Warning, contains traces of instakill(100% chance that is).
4. Natural choice for getting rid of enemy snipers, however, they cannot use their sneak for more than 45 seconds at a time, and then need a 10 seconds cooldown, after sneak has dissipated.
5. Only useful when you can get up close and personal with your enemy, the assasin would have a deathwish if they'd want to fight a biggunner with an LSW.
6. Able to run while in sneak mode.
7. Highly proficient with placing mines and demo packs, able to remake a part of the battlefield into a carpet of death and destruction.
8. Unable to sneak effectively in a bluesuit.
fuck
avv:
--- Quote from: Lordus on May 09, 2010, 03:04:09 pm ---I will not change current SPECIAL and PERK system, i will try to make changes in weapons area, and give them more abilities.
--- End quote ---
Sadly our special and people's choices in that system hugely decide how effective their character will become. If you don't absolutely choose the right perks, right skills and right stats you will be weaker. At least skill caps must be reduced because if you invest 300 in small guns to become good sniper, you don't get any spare points for profesions and are strongly encouraged to create yourself a support alt. Character build musn't decide too much how powerful you are by default, but what you will become.
--- Quote from: Lordus link=topic=4257.msg40322#msg40322 date=1273410249 --- 1) Create character - this will set the mantinels of your future PvP combat style
2) Arm yourself - this will give you possibilites of PvP combat styles
3) Use your personal skills (not character one) - your character and weapons use will depend mainly on you
--- End quote ---
Okay seems alright, but as stated pvp must be balanced for all. This also means characters with profesions. Then again profesion characters would become just less universal in pvp but still powerful because the situation and weapons are the ones that decide comabt's outcome.
Like this: gun crafters and armorers become combat mechanics, high cha builds become leaders, doctors become medics, outdoorsman guys become scouts, traps guys become demolition experts and thieves become backstabbers.
But I was just thinking that what weapons would those characters with profesions use. Could an armorcrafter use sniper? Or would he absolutely have to spend all skillpoints, perks and stats in sniping related ones to be a good sniper?
--- Quote ---So we have to balance playstyles (combat class) first, weapons an other will be in second wave.
--- End quote ---
Then we got to start thinking what kind of impact should weapon skill%, stats and perks have on the character's performance. As you know for example PE1 dude has no role in firefight.
--- Quote ---IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER IDEA or YOU THINK THAT THERE CAN EXIST ANOTHER KIND OF COMBAT CLASS, type it here. I think that this is good way how to start. Create idea of combat class and we can put it in the existing one or reduce another.
--- End quote ---
Couldn't we somehow mend lsw and minigun build because both are actually big guns with high fire rate? Same could be done with smg and assault rifle guys because they are both similar guns with just little differences. So lsw&minigun would become support, smg&AR would become grunt. In the end support would just choose most suitable gun for his incoming mission, as well as grunt. If support is going to attack he takes a little lighter big gun but in defense he uses the heavier.
Well mechanic, scout and leader are missing. Plus gordulan's rambo build. I had similar thing in mind: a melee-oriented dude who takes out snipers but i'd take out the explosives ability because that's demo expert's job. Then we could have ahbobsaget build with psycho, heavy armor and supersledge. Takes out little groups in small rooms or single enemies with good ambush.
metzger777:
lol how about this, ur bored u wanna pvp u got to a merc in ncr or wherever u tell im fed up with the world i wann shot soome prics, he give su high gun and armor and somestims (dependig on ur skills) FOR FREE the ur off shooting, drawback is u can shoot anything except for players (shoot some rats or crazies for loot is not accpetible, or maybe u can shoot them bt u get no exp and no loot, and u cant shoot inside towns) There, that s should solve this issue.
Sius:
Ok so I've finally forced myself to write down something about those abilities. So here we go:
Abilities should be something extra, that grant bonuses to various actions for out avatar. They can either boost our aim, make reload with pistols cost less AP, or make us harder to kill etc. The point is that they should be only combat based (offense/defense/survivability...) and everyone should have exact the same amount of ability points to play around. The main difference between abilities and perks is that abilities form our character step by step and only in the specific way. Thanks to tree structure you will have to spend ability points in those weaker abilities first in order to reach for those more powerful ones (so you will be either very good in offense but your defense will suck or vice versa or something between it etc = you can't take only those powerful abilities). Also abilities should be very specific in what they boost so there should be various ways how to spend our points in order to reach different bonuses for different types of weapons/armors/items or actions themselves. Perks act on general level when if you take More crit then its +5% crit chance for everything you fight with. Abilities should boost only specific equipment/actions (so reloading shotgun should not be the same as reloading assault rifle and abilities should affect only certain group or groups of equipment and only those powerful ones will work generally with everything just like perks do) and that should result in creation of endless possibilities how to roll your character. So with proper choice of abilities you could roll tank like shotgunner, long range combat hitman, indestructible mele bar fighter etc...
- abilities are addition to current special/skill/perks system
- they stand alone but they could be linked to special/skills because of balancing
(So in order to unlock certain ability one will have to meet the requirements that could be like "110% SG, at least 4 ST...". But such restrictions should be rather rare and only for top abilities.)
- abilities can be divided into two types. Active and passive.
Passive: once player choose passive ability it takes effect immediately and its permanent or its event triggered. (Example: "Born to command = You gain +1 AC per player in you group, that is in same location as you are. In addition those who follow you gain one time bonus of +5% accuracy if they are in your FoV.")
Active: player have to trigger active ability in order to gain bonus from it. They have short duration or they are one time actions and they have cooldown that defines how often we can use them, (Example: "Spray'n'pray = You burst fire in your opponents direction. You have higher chance to ignore his armor but your aim gets worse and only few bullets hit the target.")
There are numerous ways how to introduce them ingame. Either you gain ability points each level and you can spend them right after you level up or introduce something like trainers into the game. Each time you level up you will still gain ability point but you won't be able to spend it until you get trained. There could be different types of trainers for different types of abilities so in order to learn how to defend yourself better you will have to learn from "defense trainer" that could be presented ingame by an old raider that changed sides and now lives normal life or something like that (eg someone skilled who is capable of training you). Anyway problem is the lack of choice. With current level cap there are 7/5 perks and 140/600 skillpoints to play around. If we would get ability points each lvl then thats 20 ability points to spend. Thats way too low. So in order to make our char development rather "step by step" than "leap by leap" I suggest another char related changes.
Raise lvl cap 4 times but reduce perk power and skillpoints gained per lvl equally to that. So with 4x21=84 lvl cap average char would have 28 perks to choose from (and instead +5% crit chance, they should add +1/2% and have more ranks to choose from) and instead of 15 skillpoints per lvl (with IN 5) we would get 15/4=4. Level speed should not be changed until game offers more activities how to level up (quests, repeatable quests, dungeons, faction missions, alternative source of exp etc...). With such lvl cap we could finally get decent number of ability points to play with. Lets say that we start gaining ability points from 5th lvl. That leaves us with 78 points to spend on various abilities that will form our character.
So with 84 lvl cap we would get 28/21 perks (with reduced effects but more ranks or maybe just more various perks to choose from), 140/600 skillpoints and 78 ability points to form our character. And that could pretty much mean you will never ever encounter someone with the same build as you are. Sure there will be always something more popular than the rest but compared to current clone like character development it leaves way more freedom.
Anyway main reason why I'm talking about something like abilities here is that we need something that provides us with tactical choices in combat and make characters differ from each other. Perks seems like good choice for that, but their mechanics (available only once in 3/4 levels) won't allow anything more complex. If we could choose from way more perks and they would be somehow limited so you won't be able to choose only those good ones, then we could make such changes through them. But I don't think it suits Fallout to mess around with perks (just like Fallout 3 did). Instead I came up with this as something additional that stands away from bounding mechanics and can do whatever we want it to do. So its completely up to us how to make fights more tactical and how to create more different builds (other than just big gunner or eg/sg sniper) and I believe that current char development just don't have proper tools how to reach that.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version