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[kraskish]

Hello,

I believe the devs didnt create such theft system like its now intentionally. In NCR (guarded town) if theres no penalty for stealing like before (guards shoot) neither no penalty for browsing the stuff of the other, just the bad karma for actual stealing made a perfect environment for thieves in NCR, around 3 vendors, people trade and they shamelessly browse the stuff when they barter. I mean, looking 1 sec at the vendor with your loot and the 2nd second at the character (for thieves) is not so convenient. theres a disadvantage for the bartering, usual people as I think some people dont change the barter window place and simply dont see the thief browsing, and even when looking the thief is sometimes faster than you press ESC and move... The result of this is massive plague of thieves in NCR, not to mention bank, where you need to look around too, but most funny thing is, you can kill/attack/steal in the bank!

I think a solution to this theft would be to make the bartering people engaged upon attempt of stealing like the vendor/shopkeeper when 3 people barter that he is too busy, so that the thief uses steal but receives a message "the target is busy". Its simply not fair (and makes the game more annoying) because thieves are simply on the advantaged position.

[RavenousRat]

Give thieves a chance! When I'm at NCR they can escape only if robbing someone near exit grid and then instantly leaving NCR, if they far away from exit grid, they usually die.

[kraskish]

Well, imagine that, I (and a lot of people) travel to NCR to craft and then sell I need to disarm the weapon to go into the city, then I (and others) would like to simply barter, but cant. The 3 vendors there are all close to exit grid, like 20-30 steps? and after going to the city I (and I think some people too) dont put the gun instantly when leaving, also low levels cant kill the thief. Another option, guarded merchant in NCR. Its like communist fight now.

[virus341]

Try this.
And if it is still a problem to press esc and run from thief, well...I suggest you to move to another city.

[kraskish]

Yes, that is the problem as I said they have more time than you (with slight delay - you barter in that moment you dont look 20 seconds at your char) pressing ESC is instant but then right click and left its kinda challenge to be faster than 1 click of the thieves... doesnt it?

[gordulan]

nope, get used to it pal, there's no other fair way to get away from thieves.

[vedaras]

i think stealing timeout just needs to be increasedm all we need now :>

[Sius]

i think stealing timeout just needs to be increasedm all we need now :>

Definitely not the way to go. Cooldowns in general should be smaller or disappear completely since its ultra lame mechanics. I've already posted some ideas at http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2860.0. Main thing is that people don't know what is happening to them. If someone is using lockpick skill just to troll and act like thief then sure one can never sell anything without constant fear of loosing his stuff and running around is annoying. Some messages in log would help with this and even for thieves since you never know why the window closes, if it was your fail or person moved out of your reach etc...

But guys think about this. Thieves can exist only in NCR, if there is a thief around you can easily spot them and avoid them and those stupid "allseeing" guards make it impossible to steal unnoticed. Also once you steal you are like permanently flagged (with invisible flag) and everyone can kill you without remorse (dunno when that "you caused trouble in this town" flag go away if it go away at all). + once you recognize the thief he is screwed cause of namecolorizing.

So you want to nerf something that is already one of the most limited skills in game, not only you have to invest shitload of perks/skillpoints to be successful, but you are limited with space and time too (since sooner or later you will be known as thief and thats your end). So imho no one side nerf is needed here but more like balance and more options for both sides are required. For victims how to avoid/punish stealing but also how to steal unnoticed/successfully for thieves.

[kraskish]

Definitely not the way to go. Cooldowns in general should be smaller or disappear completely since its ultra lame mechanics. I've already posted some ideas at http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2860.0. Main thing is that people don't know what is happening to them. If someone is using lockpick skill just to troll and act like thief then sure one can never sell anything without constant fear of loosing his stuff and running around is annoying. Some messages in log would help with this and even for thieves since you never know why the window closes, if it was your fail or person moved out of your reach etc...

But guys think about this. Thieves can exist only in NCR, if there is a thief around you can easily spot them and avoid them and those stupid "allseeing" guards make it impossible to steal unnoticed. Also once you steal you are like permanently flagged (with invisible flag) and everyone can kill you without remorse (dunno when that "you caused trouble in this town" flag go away if it go away at all). + once you recognize the thief he is screwed cause of namecolorizing.

So you want to nerf something that is already one of the most limited skills in game, not only you have to invest shitload of perks/skillpoints to be successful, but you are limited with space and time too (since sooner or later you will be known as thief and thats your end). So imho no one side nerf is needed here but more like balance and more options for both sides are required. For victims how to avoid/punish stealing but also how to steal unnoticed/successfully for thieves.

Well and what if youre not carrying a weapon since you entered the town 2 mins ago or you have 10mm and you cant kill the thief with it. Whats more... It happened to me once that the thief was killed but it was thieves fault he ran into the group of people, but all others go down and then right below the tent. Either way its annoying to barter in NCR.

I agree its undervalued, but it breaches a normal gameplay, when you hunt you hunt, when you pvp you pvp, when you barter... you get robbed....

[RavenousRat]

I agree its undervalued, but it breaches a normal gameplay, when you hunt you hunt, when you pvp you pvp, when you barter... you get robbed....

1) Also when you come to NCR at good gear you can be bursted.
1a) If you selling .44 FMJ ammo and ignore my messages for like 20 minutes that I want to buy it, I can kill you too.
2) If you entering NCR at any time, you can be bombed.
3) If you're hunting, evil guys can encounter you and kill you.
4) If you're standing and doing nothing, or bartering with other player of NPC, you can be robbed.
etc.
So why only 4th must be removed?

If you want 100% safety stay at Wolrd Map or Tent... but at Bugs board at one topic someone said that he is died at World Map, and at the other topic someone said that NPC merchant spawned at his tent and killed him... so I don't think that there's a safe place at FOnline anymore. So if you want to feel yourself totally safe, don't even log in... oh wait! At Bugs section someone said that his account was deleted... damn! In other words: don't play this game if you don't want to have any problems.

[geraioptuaer]

Thiefs have a hard time as it is in this game, i'm with mr rat

[kraskish]

1) Also when you come to NCR at good gear you can be bursted.
1a) If you selling .44 FMJ ammo and ignore my messages for like 20 minutes that I want to buy it, I can kill you too.
2) If you entering NCR at any time, you can be bombed.
3) If you're hunting, evil guys can encounter you and kill you.
4) If you're standing and doing nothing, or bartering with other player of NPC, you can be robbed.
etc.
So why only 4th must be removed?

If you want 100% safety stay at Wolrd Map or Tent... but at Bugs board at one topic someone said that he is died at World Map, and at the other topic someone said that NPC merchant spawned at his tent and killed him... so I don't think that there's a safe place at FOnline anymore. So if you want to feel yourself totally safe, don't even log in... oh wait! At Bugs section someone said that his account was deleted... damn! In other words: don't play this game if you don't want to have any problems.

Well that are the person-involved risks
1) yes you can - dunno whats the point of being guarded anyway (NCR) you can easily kill within city
2) yes, got it, I dont stand in group of people - avoiding risk
3) outdoorsman skill - related individual problem its good
4) no not doing nothing, and no I dont mean trading with other people because you can step aside somewhere or even on the worldmap, my point is you cant evade stealing while bartering in NCR - SO ANNOYING ( dont tell me to move )

[vedaras]

bla bla...

nah i dont agree with you. If thief would have 5 minutes cooldown for example, player who comes to trade could walk away when thief is trying to rob him, and then trade when thief is on cooldown. Now its impossible to avoid thief for trader, since one thief could terrorize all players comming to same npc trader because of very low cooldown, and its not right for sure.

[RavenousRat]

Well that are the person-involved risks
1) yes you can - dunno whats the point of being guarded anyway (NCR) you can easily kill within city
2) yes, got it, I dont stand in group of people - avoiding risk
3) outdoorsman skill - related individual problem its good
4) no not doing nothing, and no I dont mean trading with other people because you can step aside somewhere or even on the worldmap, my point is you cant evade stealing while bartering in NCR - SO ANNOYING ( dont tell me to move )

1) You don't understand, one guy SMGing you, you both die, other (friend of guy who bursted you) picking up your items.
1a) I killed (EDIT: oh noes, I didn't kill him, guards crit me instantly, so I insta-killed him only to 0 HP) innocent at NCR only once (don't include bombing), but that moron didn't want to answer on my messages, that I want to buy all ammo he have, he didn't even said "Get off" or something, just ignored.
2) You don't need to stay in gruop, you trading with NPC, another bluesuiter comes near, don't doing any actions behind you, so you don't expect him as a thief, and he's not a thief really, he simply going close to Sha Enin and then setting dynamite on 1 second and then Boom, Sha Enin and everyone who was standing near him are dead.
3) No, I don't talk about YOU encounter THEM. I talking about THEY found YOU. Your outdoorsman won't help you.
4) The same as 2th, while you bartering at NCR, everything can happend, you can barter not only at NCR... there're alot towns at California and even more NPC traders than towns.

[GroeneAppel]

Well that are the person-involved risks
1) yes you can - dunno whats the point of being guarded anyway (NCR) you can easily kill within city
2) yes, got it, I dont stand in group of people - avoiding risk
3) outdoorsman skill - related individual problem its good
4) no not doing nothing, and no I dont mean trading with other people because you can step aside somewhere or even on the worldmap, my point is you cant evade stealing while bartering in NCR - SO ANNOYING ( dont tell me to move )

Yes i'm telling you to move, it's your own dam fault that you are distracted by the merchant, and the thief tries to take advantage off that. It's already incredible hard for thieves to make a living, for once stop whining, and take a higher PE next time.