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[Arnatos]

I'm a F1 F2 and FT veteran, or at least i consider my self to be one Recently i started playing FO an even I have some experience form previous games. I found it extreamly hard and annoing for low lvl players. Not only that more experienced players tend to hunt for newbies just for fun but also some encounters are to hard for new characters that have no weapon and armor. For example I mett mercenaries fighting huboglobist[faction that looks like huboglobist from f2 i did not remember name] and even before my turn I was hit by 2 plazma granades and left with -64hp.

So why not try make game esier, more fun and less annoing for new players.

Lets make enconquers dependable on player lvl and amount of players in group. Whats the pourpose of 1 lvl unarmed guy metting 9 armed riders and geting kiled over and over. I love fallout but being kiled every 10-20 min by player or random encounter and loosing few things I have makes me turn the game of like every 20 min. Well and turn it back on after 5 minuts , it's fallout after all .

Make like 6 encounters pools containing diferend kinds of enemies starting from small weak grups and ending on big and strong.[lvl1-lvl6 encounters

then use some formula like
[sum of players lvl]/[amount of players]/4=x

then for x=1 player meets only weakest encounters
for 1<x<2 player has split chance to meet lvl 1 or 2 enconcuers  closer to x=2 biger chance to meet lvl2 encounter
for 2<x<3 player meets only lvl 2 and lvl3 encounters and so on up to lvl 6 witch would by only for lvl 21 players and contain some boss monsters

This would benefit also high lvl players because they propably also are feed up with rad scorpions and  rats they have no use in fighting as they propably get like 5-10 exp for each


Second thing there should be some mechanism preventing high lvl players from killing low lvl players to often [As for me they should be prevented for good but much people propably would disagree].

Maybe some karma loses for kiling newbies. And serious consecuences for killing to much to low lvl players. Somthing like negative Perk [Newbie killer] Witch would mark you to other players so they would know.

Or

there could be like no pvp area 5x5 squares where newbies would start game and had to leave it after reaching lvl 6. Once lvl 6 you could never go back in this area. Before reaching lvl 6 you could go in and out as you please. It would had one city some newbie quests and lvl 1 profesion trainers. And brahmin skin market. So every player would leave the area with basic gun armor some cash and materials for his own tent. This would make first contact with game much more pleasant for new players.

Or

There could be at least chance on kepping some of our items. 5% x [player lvl] roll on losing item when kiled. Separate roll for each item. Money not included you die you lose them no mather what lvl.


Sory for my english but im not nativ english speaker i did best i could.
I hope some people would find this topic interesting and worth discusing.

[TommyTheGun]

Would not agree...

Pre Wipe when i was starting, noone helped me and i did fine. It was annoying at the beggining - all those terrible deaths and stuff. But i've learned my lessons and started avoiding daths as often as possible.

Stuff in Fonline is easy to make/get and easy to loose ad i guess its not the matter of it beeing a bad or good feature. Its just the way it is.

Encounters are difficult often but you have to remember - you go out of safe city, you can die easly. It's just the way it is.

If you're a newbie, why wont you just ask for help? I suggest going to NCR and just looking for someone who would be kind enough to give you some gun, help you getting brahmin hides for tent or whatever it is you need. Ofcourse you can't trust people too much but then again... The world is cruel and....... The Wasteland Is Harsh!

[Badger]

I think the obvious question to ask when considering things like this is 'How does this make the game more enjoyable?'.

A game that allows new players to be fucked over and shat on by the game's veterans is one that quickly stagnates. The playerbase doesn't grow, as anyone who stumbles across it or is introduced to it will quickly become frustrated. The only people left are die-hard fans who'll play the game regardless of how good it is.

A lot of new player problems could be solved pretty easily. Making all new character start in the same town/region in the worldmap will be a start, particularly if that town is heavily guarded. That town could then be packed with quests to familiarise new players with a lot of FOnline's new game elements, and how different the style of play is. Ideally, that town couldn't be enterable from the outside.

Dumping players into the world with no guidance and no gear isn't HARDCORE, it's bad design. Level 1 characters aren't newly born babies.

[Deja_Voodoo]

I think the obvious question to ask when considering things like this is 'How does this make the game more enjoyable?'.

A game that allows new players to be fucked over and shat on by the game's veterans is one that quickly stagnates. The playerbase doesn't grow, as anyone who stumbles across it or is introduced to it will quickly become frustrated. The only people left are die-hard fans who'll play the game regardless of how good it is.

A lot of new player problems could be solved pretty easily. Making all new character start in the same town/region in the worldmap will be a start, particularly if that town is heavily guarded. That town could then be packed with quests to familiarise new players with a lot of FOnline's new game elements, and how different the style of play is. Ideally, that town couldn't be enterable from the outside.

Dumping players into the world with no guidance and no gear isn't HARDCORE, it's bad design. Level 1 characters aren't newly born babies.

   This is not a "for pay" game. There's no subscription, there never WILL be. The people who make this game make it as a labor of love WHEN THEY HAVE TIME FOR IT. The raw majority of us like Fallout for what it is....SURVIVAL. Survival isn't easy, and doesn't serve you a 5 course dinner while you are getting a blowjob from a prostitute in a Ferrarri. Survival is HARD. In other words? Go through the trials the rest of us went through. In time? You'll figure it out, or you'll play WoW, pay 15 bucks and a month for it and be BORED>

[Aricvomit]

i want a 5 course meal in a ferrari while getting bj's, of course by 5 course i mean 5 big ass cheeseburgers :p

[Badger]

i want a 5 course meal in a ferrari while getting bj's, of course by 5 course i mean 5 big ass cheeseburgers :p

Seconded. Fetch me a highwayman and a bag of jerky. This game isn't going to turn itself around.

[TommyTheGun]

+ Theres a lot of people helping newbies. One of the reason - they know how hard it is to start. Erm... What i want to say is - the game defends itself.

Oh, oh! And:

I think i like Fonline so much cause its not WoW-type easy game. It's not MMO Hack'n'Slash. You need to think about your actions or loose your stuff. It also means - when you finally get to the point when you don't really care about loosing stuff etc it's a great feeling. And it's also so nice because you didnt clicked through the whole game without wondering why.

[Wichura]

A game that allows new players to be fucked over and shat on by the game's veterans is one that quickly stagnates. The playerbase doesn't grow, as anyone who stumbles across it or is introduced to it will quickly become frustrated. The only people left are die-hard fans who'll play the game regardless of how good it is.

I disagree - yesterday I met around 8 to 10 new players, don't remember exactly. I helped them to make a tent, gave them weapon, ammo and jacket and took for some simple hunting, first XP and loot. I saw some of them later at night in game, having much fun from first killed scorpions, first crafted ammo, first sold supplies or so. One of them even told me, that he is already addicted from FOnline - after couple hours of playing!

I think there is no need to do any "kindergartens", "orphanages" or such things. Tommy says well - this is Wasteland, and it is harsh. Faster you will know it, longer you can survive.

[Arnatos]

+ Theres a lot of people helping newbies. One of the reason - they know how hard it is to start. Erm... What i want to say is - the game defends itself.

How would you know I have seen you few times huntig unarmed blue siuts with laser. Unless thats what you understand by helping.

   Cry more, n00b.

Mh yes not exacly the level of converastion i would expect from grown up.


 

I think the obvious question to ask when considering things like this is 'How does this make the game more enjoyable?'.

A game that allows new players to be fucked over and shat on by the game's veterans is one that quickly stagnates. The playerbase doesn't grow, as anyone who stumbles across it or is introduced to it will quickly become frustrated. The only people left are die-hard fans who'll play the game regardless of how good it is.

A lot of new player problems could be solved pretty easily. Making all new character start in the same town/region in the worldmap will be a start, particularly if that town is heavily guarded. That town could then be packed with quests to familiarise new players with a lot of FOnline's new game elements, and how different the style of play is. Ideally, that town couldn't be enterable from the outside.

Dumping players into the world with no guidance and no gear isn't HARDCORE, it's bad design. Level 1 characters aren't newly born babies.

Yes exacly what i'm thinking. If it will continue like it is after some time server will contain only bunch of 21 lvl Hardcore players and ocasional lvl 1-3 players trying the game out and deleting it from drive after few deaths.



Some people in this topic refered to wow. Using it as a bad example. I dont know why. Personaly i dont like wow world and charakters but thers a reason why that game has 10mln active users [or something like that]. Because its good game. Ofers easy start enjojable not hard game play and chalanging instances where even best players have to give their very best to sukced.

And IMO thats how it should be. Game should be fun and not to hard to play for average player and ofer some chelenging features for HARDCORE players.
Not other way around. Like in FO now where game is easy and fun when you on top and is a nightmare for new players.

I disagree - yesterday I met around 8 to 10 new players, don't remember exactly. I helped them to make a tent, gave them weapon, ammo and jacket and took for some simple hunting, first XP and loot. I saw some of them later at night in game, having much fun from first killed scorpions, first crafted ammo, first sold supplies or so. One of them even told me, that he is already addicted from FOnline - after couple hours of playing!

I think there is no need to do any "kindergartens", "orphanages" or such things. Tommy says well - this is Wasteland, and it is harsh. Faster you will know it, longer you can survive.

I agree with most of what you have writen. I had same fun when playing for first few hours. First mined ore, minerals, first crafted gun and ammo. Yes it was damm fun. but Then some player kiled me while wisiting NCR. So i mined second ore an minerals crafted second gun and amoo. hour later kiled again. Third ore and minerals gun and ammo. And every time it was les fun and more annoying. Now for me this game is still fun in night time when there is not much players and carefoul player can actualy stay alive for hours.During day thers to many 2-4 man parties armed with advanced guns. but making 1 lvl character and starting playing during day time is nightmare. Maybe im litle over reacting beacuse i was trying difrent builds to find most suitable for me so i played 5 difrent characters lvl1-3 so overall i got killed more times than other. But i quite shure that most players below lvl 10 would agree with me that it's - for game not +.

[TommyTheGun]

Yeah cause that's what i do. I hunt people with my laser. It's a pity, my char is non-pk small guns fastshooter. Theres not only one Tommy in that game - just so you know.

[Wichura]

How would you know I have seen you few times huntig unarmed blue siuts with laser. Unless thats what you understand by helping.

As far as I know, TommyTheGun doesn't use any energy weapon. And I know this man well, he is not some crazy yahoo Player Killer and if he shoots "unarmed bluesuit", there is some serious reason to do so (bluesuit marked as thief or bomber - I shot myself some of those in NCR). It has to be some mistake in nicknames, because I can hardly believe in such thing.

I agree with most of what you have writen. I had same fun when playing for first few hours. First mined ore, minerals, first crafted gun and ammo. Yes it was damm fun. but Then some player kiled me while wisiting NCR. So i mined second ore an minerals crafted second gun and amoo. hour later kiled again. Third ore and minerals gun and ammo. And every time it was les fun and more annoying. Now for me this game is still fun in night time when there is not much players and carefoul player can actualy stay alive for hours.During day thers to many 2-4 man parties armed with advanced guns. but making 1 lvl character and starting playing during day time is nightmare. Maybe im litle over reacting beacuse i was trying difrent builds to find most suitable for me so i played 5 difrent characters lvl1-3 so overall i got killed more times than other. But i quite shure that most players below lvl 10 would agree with me that it's - for game not +.

On my first adventures with crafting I were going to craft stuff in Boneyard, its workbench was much more peaceful than NCRs, full of thieves. So I went there once, twice and so, I met some people, but they weren't dangerous. That's what I thought. Then, after preparing tons of Gunpowder, Metal parts and Junk to do some ammo, I went there again - and got killed by some smart bastard with SMG. Of course all of my stuff gone.
And it was done to me couple times, also as being killed by some "omfg-lol-n00b" idiot so often, that can't even count - so what? It's a game about hard and dangerous world, not some ass-licking colorful planet of care bears and ponys.
Don't disheart yet - game offers much after hard begining.

[baaelSiljan]

but... at moment with current mechanics, players who play there first time can't slide ease into world. They stuck. You need tree to make hatchet, You cannot make hatchet without tree. Every time new player go out of location, someone kill him, or incredible amount of mobs are hunting for him. I've seen hardcore fans of fallout 1/2 who after playing 2 hours says they dont have enough time and patience to spend there week to get any stuff and experience. When beta starts, there was much more people on not too high level with same problems. And that was fun. New player who don't understand world, probably will not join any faction soon, is lost. And most popular quest for newbies, starts in New Reno, no many of them can finish it. This world is hard and should be hard, there shouln't be any protection. But there should be honey pot for newbies.

[Alvarez]

But there should be honey pot for newbies.

Agreed, but it shouldn't be exploited by a legion of alts. It's about information.

How about a nice NPC at hospital location, giving you some rough encouraging words and some hints about survival?
It would be a bit carebearish, but...
I always imagine someone saying: "You again, (insert random female name here)? Didn't i said, don't go to Modoc at rush hour?"

[Nice_Boat]

This world is hard and should be hard, there shouln't be any protection. But there should be honey pot for newbies.

The problem isn't the game itself; the problem is lack of any serious and well written advice for the new players. The official guide is more or less "get some brahmin hides, f**k off". Most of the things mentioned here (PKs, encounters, losing stuff early) could easily be avoided by making an outdoor build (100% with skill points and +50% survivalist x2) and remembering that guarded towns are just that - "guarded", not "safe".

[Arnatos]

Yeah cause that's what i do. I hunt people with my laser. It's a pity, my char is non-pk small guns fastshooter. Theres not only one Tommy in that game - just so you know.

ok sorry my bad.