Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Solar]

Pvp effectivity needs less direct relation to character build and more connection to player's invidual skill so that a player who isn't pvp powerbuild can still do fine if he knows how to play.

Hm, I don't think taking away the importance of in game character performance is particularly desirable. Better would be to remove the advantage powerbuilds have over normal builds - and in an ideal world that would be by boosting other char types up, rather than nerfing Mini/Snipers down.

[Badger]

Hm, I don't think taking away the importance of in game character performance is particularly desirable. Better would be to remove the advantage powerbuilds have over normal builds - and in an ideal world that would be by boosting other char types up, rather than nerfing Mini/Snipers down.

So what are the other types? Doctors. Assault-rifle guys. Pistoleers (Real word. Who knew?). Shotgunners. Energy-pistoleers. SMGers. Grenadiers. Meleers. Unarmed. Anyone think of anything else?

[avv]

So what are the other types? Doctors. Assault-rifle guys. Pistoleers (Real word. Who knew?). Shotgunners. Energy-pistoleers. SMGers. Grenadiers. Meleers. Unarmed. Anyone think of anything else?

So what do you mean with types? A guy who's only taken fighting related skills and perks, or a dude who can craft and fight, but his fighting style clearly resembles some specific type? Because players should be allowed to choose their fighting and economic skills and perks without being devastated in pvp.

Hm, I don't think taking away the importance of in game character performance is particularly desirable. Better would be to remove the advantage powerbuilds have over normal builds - and in an ideal world that would be by boosting other char types up, rather than nerfing Mini/Snipers down.

Along with toning down damages and performance potentials in general? Because pvp is no fun if we delived 200dmg packages at each other all day long, no matter how many builds there are.

[bikkebakke]

Crafters could have benefit in pvp from special weapon
Armorcrafter. Power armor. seriously. only usable by armor crafter. He is pretty much deadmeat with armorcrafting 3, but with power armor he could actually be viable tank in pvp. Why wouldnt anyone else be able to use power armor? Becouse armorcrafters get special training for it. They study the secrets of Power armor and are the only ones smart enuff to use it.

That acutally sounds pretty good, make it trainable if you have armorer [3] and like 180% repairskill and 130 (+-?) science, that way you won't be able to be a full pvp build but you will still be able to have the best armor ingame

[Solar]

Along with toning down damages and performance potentials in general? Because pvp is no fun if we delived 200dmg packages at each other all day long, no matter how many builds there are.

Well, depends who you talk to, see the earlier post about how high damage is a good thing. Personally I'm inclined to agree so long as its so easy to run away and its hard to find a non annoying mechanism to stop you running.

[iicca]

The real problem here is that when you reduce some of your stat points you can become exellent at all other things you want.
If something makes you distribute special points in wider area it would balance things out.

Everyone propably knows this but just to wanted to crystalize the problem into 2 sentences. Lets continue from here?

Here is some thoughts about the fix. Need some helps finding flaws and exploits. 2 or more heads is always better than one.
You have to understand that these are only experimental suggestions and no way something I think is balanced, so rather than saying it totally blows don't comment at all if you have nothing to make it better. We all know it is not perfect, no need to repeat that.

[STR 6 gives 1ap bonus move  [STR 8 -1 on attack APcost]
[Give STR stat similiar HP gain effect  like Endurance has on each level up but a bit smaller.]
Why? Becose doesn't matter how agile you are if you lack strenght you can't move fast. -1 to APcost at STR10 becouse the guy is strenghty that getting a gun like big gun into shooting condition takes less time.
[AG, all points in AG over 8 give only bonus ap to movement, AG10 -1 to attack APcost]
Why? Becouse Making you more agile don't give you any more time to shoot with your weapon. Time and distance doesn't change becouse your guns RoF determines how many times you can shoot when standing still.
[EN 8 gives you 1ap bonus move, EN 10 gives you 1 bonus move]
You also need endurance to move fast
[IN 6 gives you 1 AP]
Becouse to use time and distance travelling you need to be somehow intelligent to realize things and be able to learn from your mistakes

Other SPECIALS could have similiar perk like bonus abilities. When SPECIAL effects only in one thing it's easy to decide where to put points.
But When bonuses are distributed all over he SPECIALS you really need to think what to get. For example you cant be insanely fast moving, fast shooting, TANK.

This is only a rough example as I stated above, deciding what SPECIALS give what bonuses should be faithful to "fluff" and also something
that wouldn't break the rules to hard. This is already breaking the character creation but If left as it is there is really nothing to make
things better.

The idea could be also something totally different, but still related to specials.

[Sius]

iicca I like your suggestion and I like it a lot. BUT...

The main problem is to find what will each special boost and nerf (not game content thats for sure) to make it balanced. Because bonus movement is just for TB fights (unless there is some new mechanics introduced that will make it effective to have bonus APs just to move in RT combat too). So f.e.:

ST
Low ST should remain as it is, limits you with weapon choices and mostly combined with weapon handling perk. But ST above average should boost your weapon handling (not perk but an actual weapon handling) = faster reloading, more accurate burst shots (I mean more ST you have more steady your hand is while you pull the trigger etc.). Also as it was mentioned some slight HP boost per level. That may differ from your ST = with ST 1-3 you get +1 hp per lvl, with ST 4-7 you get +2 hp per lvl, and with 8-10 you will get +3 hp per lvl. Or maybe instead 1/2/3 its should be 0/1/2. Anyway more ST should imho equal to more tank like build.

BUT problem with current builds is that when you choose to roll some "class" such as SG sniper or big gunner then you have like every statistic primary and only CH and IN to play around a bit. Imho every build should have like 1-2 primary statistic, 1-2 trash statistic and rest average depending on his goals. Its hard to make it profitable for PvPer to put at least something to his trash stats which are mostly ST/IN/CH. LK 6 is a must cause of perks, AG below 6 is pretty much useless, EN same thing 7/8+, PE 6/7+ and none will put 4+ CH just to chitchat with NPCs. They rather make themselves an alt. So maybe experiment with something radical like talented trait or something like that might help.

[iicca]

good stuff

I know its hard, but what wouldnt be? balancing is always hard no matter how you do that.
 
I forgot the real time totally .

AG below 5 shouldn't reduce your AP's. It should reduce your AC. Propably need to forget the bonus move ap's.

[skejwen]

BUT problem with current builds is that when you choose to roll some "class" such as SG sniper or big gunner then you have like every statistic primary and only CH and IN to play around a bit.

lies... ;>

now depending on build there are only two possible trash stats: luck and (every time) charisma

[iicca]

lies... ;>

now depending on build there are only two possible trash stats: luck and (every time) charisma

Lies

no matter what your build is (not counting leader). There is always one trash stat charisma.

[Solar]

6 Pe, 6 En, 6 Luck are your minimums for perks.

Maybe throw in Str 3 or 4 for SG/BG with weapon handling.

Ch 1 of course, still just a useless stat.

Ag minumum is really 8, I wouldn't like to go any lower than 6 I

so 3 or 4/6/6/1/6/8/6

Then you have the other SPECIAL points to use however you can still come out with something decent at the end.

3 (BG) or 4 (SG/BG with small frame) or 5 (SG with small frame) to play with.

Ch 6 for the win! 

[Badger]

Ch 6 for the win! 

On a side note, I feel a little cheated that with 6 charisma, which I consider a pretty decent investment, I only get two NPC followers.

[Solar]

Well, boundries must be somewhere. At least you then have two perks which can give you extra followers.

[iicca]

I would like to hear dev opinions on Stat and perk balancing becouse really I want to know if I'm wasting my time thinking these things up or If you have some other rout you wanna take in future considering pvp. Just want to know.

[avv]

Well, boundries must be somewhere. At least you then have two perks which can give you extra followers.

Cha could unlock some nice perks. For example a leader type of guy would be very effective in gang vs gang pvp with all of his buffs. And then the effectivity of the leader would be determined by the cha of his teammates because it's no use to be a leader if the others don't want to be led.

Then we could have this "loner" perk for low cha guys, but it required high int ^_^