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[Arry]

Unarmed can be good in PvP, but you need to make some HtH damages. Even with piercing kick I did 7 dmg, then 8dmg crit in the eyes... Not very effective. It was ofc against full drugged+Metal MKII char

Why unarmed are so weak Pvp ? Because they can't run and attack like others, after you get the knockback and your enemy is dead and can't do nothin' about it. With power fist I think you can make some good damages

[maorys]

power fist are useless and expensive. empty hand and emty inventory thats the best with unarmed:)

[Ombra]

Another thing I noticed who unbalance HtH fighters:

while you can run a few then shoot with a ranged weapon (and miss or hit), with melee you must stay at 1-2 hexes away from enemy (1 with unarmed) and that's very vulnerable to lag, in which sometimes you see animation of attack but you don't attack at all!

Please Izual, tell me some impression/serious comment about an eventual remake of melee class 

[Izual]

I'm not a dev. All I can tell here is my own opinion.

I think Unarmed characters are already really powerful. Tag Unarmed, Fa, Doc, get a hotel room and some levels. You don't need any armor, ammo, weapon, repair, crafting or so. Which is the case for all the people using firearms. You can be killed and be back to fight one minute later. I think unarmed is fine. Uber criticals, no consequences if you die, you never craft, you never repair, you never need ammo.

On the other hand, Melee needs to be redone. Melee weapons should be as deadly as firearms. Melee weapons should be more frequent and also should have some damage boost (because they're useless against armors now).

[Ombra]

Please, no spam on my thread   | I fixed it ;p - Iz

I'm not a dev. All I can tell here is my own opinion. [...] On the other hand, Melee needs to be redone. Melee weapons should be as deadly as firearms. Melee weapons should be more frequent and also should have some damage boost (because they're useless against armors now).

I totally agree with you, and It's good to see your opinion, even if not a dev.

Well, now I just hope a dev read this thread and give his impression...

[Roachor]

Unarmed char without insta kill is going to do about 100 dmg if he's lucky in one AP cycle, a ripper will do about 4 times that.

[Drakonis]

Unarmed char without insta kill is going to do about 100 dmg if he's lucky in one AP cycle, a ripper will do about 4 times that.

THats why they call it a ripper *wink wink*

[Roachor]

My point is Izual saying unarmed is OP just makes me think he's never leveled an unarmed char. They are far from powerful, even at 21. Also melee and unarmed are essentially the same as end level weapons for both are pretty much identical, mega power fist vs ripper.

[Izual]

I had many unarmed char since OBT2 and I got one at the moment, mid-level. Does it enlighten my post ? Yes, I play an Unarmed char and I keep saying they have enough power.

[Sius]

I like unarmed and mele builds but it feels... strange. Currently we have 3 primary types of weapons and unarmed/mele/throwing are possible only as a secondary skill that most people take just for the lulz than to actually fight with them. They might work in PvE and even then only if you have shitloads of stimpacks with you. What I would personally like if its introduced is pretty much described in http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3681.0.
I would love "special" attacks and different fight styles depended on what have you learned and how did you mastered it as a player. I mean regular guy does not kick you same way as some badass karate matrix mindfucking monk. Imho things like avv described in his post that I've linked could be very helpful and some nice examples can be shown at close combat.

So when it comes to HtH combat I imagine it somehow like this:
- can sprint faster than others for short period of time
- can disarm enemies
- can stun enemies (knockback, knockdown, kidney/groin shot, Chuck's kick (oh wait thats insta kill)
- can blind enemies for a few seconds (sand in the eyes)
- can easily "dance" around his target without loosing APs (won't sit like a duck at one single hex)
- very hard to be knocked down or cripeled + better dodge chance
- possibility to change stances like kamikaze/cautious/normal
Kamikaze: takes 10% extra dmg but runs at 120% speed all the time and less hp you got more dmg (or critical hits) you deal
Cautious: regular speed, deals less crit hits, higher dodge chance
- can deploy many fast shots that distract enemy or single powerful blow (maybe some chance to "eat" oponents APs while you are attacking him, like -1AP with 10-30% chance to drain them per hit)
- can stab you = bleeding effect and damage over time
Also mele should recognise different builds like silent ninja killer that combines sneaking and hth combat or big dumb walking rock thats not afraid to get into cross fire or some regular bar fighter with broken beer bottle etc.

Think what you want but I would definitely like something like this ingame  .

[Izual]

Oh, well, then I'll totally make only unarmed char. ;p Don't you think it would be just a bit unbalanced ?

[Sius]

Oh, well, then I'll totally make only unarmed char. ;p Don't you think it would be just a bit unbalanced ?

Imho things like avv described in his post that I've linked could be very helpful and some nice examples can be shown at close combat.

It does not mean only HtH chars should have such skills. Its just an example because its easier to come up with some HtH stuff right away then thinking how something similar could be used at long range combat. But hey here are some for them too:
- possibility to deal wider splash dmg with explosives, rockets, grenades but slightly reduced dmg (if you know where to aim you know how to shoot so blastwave will hurt them all)
- truly aimed shots: eats shitload of APs (if you don't have enough to execute they will go below 0 and then regenerate) = they should affect hit chance mainly and dmg/crit only slightly
- spray and pray: point at the direction and burst, small chance to randomly hit targets at places you don't even know that are there = chance to penetrate armor but only few bullets per burst hit the target

Etc. These are just spontaneous brain storms but I think you got the idea.

[Izual]

Actually those ideas would be good if you mixed them (I think you meant to mix them) with the "unarmed styles" ideas. Like if Lo Pan taught you, you can do that truly aimed shots thing, if it's the Dragon then spray and pray thing. Just examples. But I also think it would be quite a hard word (of implementing and balancing) for such a skill. Unfortunately it's quite low-priority, since it's also a big change.

[Sius]

Well I think it could be quiet vice versa to what you say about balancing. Sure at first it would take enormous amount of braniacs thinking of all possible aspects and their outcomes, then trying to implement it (= fight with technical stuff) and then eventual live test maybe first with closed community and then at full scale update.

But when this initial huge pile of work is done I believe balance issues could be solved with more ease. I mean every build would have its own set of skills that differs it from others and it would not be just battle of numbers. Even tho powerbuilders would still exist with those perfectly counted SPECIAL stats and precisely chosen perks but these skills/abilities could provide some choice to develop your character by your personal taste. You want to snipe everything as most effectively as you can? Why not, but you will suck at everything else. Another guy might rather increase his grenade range+knockdown chance and he will pop up with an assault rifle in his hands from behind the corner and eat you alive with few quick bursts combined with those nasty grenades... Simply variety of skills and abilities that alter your character in combat or crafting/support/npc interaction are things that I'm looking for in future FOnline.

Edit: My brain was off when I wrote that strikeout part.

[Izual]

Yup, I agree with quite everything you said. It could also be exported to firearms with, again, special trainers, and you could only being taught by one in your entire life. It wouldn't be that complicated, I think. For example, one trainer could teach you how to do aimed shots with long range rifles (Sniper profession), another to burst with SMGs or P90C, another to widen range and to do more damage with grenades, etc, etc...