Other > Suggestions

Revaluate Melee/Unarmed classes

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FischiPiSti:
Hehe, youre right, but imo silent death should remain an unarmed perk because sneaking with a frikkin sledgehammer is wrong :D
Just like sneaking with minigun...

Other subject: HtH Evade needs implementing very fastlike if we want unarmed to have reasonable AC.
So yeah, bonus AC at end of turns dont work for obvious reasons. Or can it?
The engine needs some support about this, but what about a RT AC bonus system that doesnt add AC at end of the turn, but modify AC with every action made? In RT when you are generating AP, thats like waiting for your turn right? So its plausable imo.
You are standing still in NCR with 10 agility, that gives a bonus AC of +10(+20 with hth evade) Punch someone, you have 7 AP, +7 AC. AC should be modified only when you are doing actions, not when your AP is changed. This means, that you dont get AC modified after each AP regenerated, because that would have a serious impact on server performance imo. If a character begins to move, server checks for current AP, modifies AC. AC doesnt get updated with every hex, just when the character starts to run.

Anyways this suggestion was a bit offtopic, was just another brainstorm, i dont know what effects this would have on gameplay, or would it cause huge lag. In FO2 i usually blew all my AP in the turn with either attacking or moving. Here, players would have a default +10 AC, or even +18 with jet junkies. I dont think it would be too OP tho, because average players have 150+ % in combat skills. The best solution for this would be if players had 0 AP as default, like i suggested yesterday. AP would only start to generate when players initiate an attack - but cant attack because of no AP, they need to wait. Like in RL when you shoot, you cant shoot instantly, you need to "generate AP", prepare the shot... Lift the rifle, aim down the sight, bam. This way, players would have a constant 0-5 AC bonus, because when they gathered enough AP to attack, it returns to 0, thus AC wont get modified.

ANYHOW...This is a far fetched suggestion, hard to do, maybe not even a good idea. What CAN however be done to HtH Evade is to let it increase AC for skill/12, like it should. For 120 skill thats +10 AC. 10 AG+Dodger+HtH Evade+combat leather jacket(no sneak penalty, 18 ac)=43 AC. Good against rats, not really helping against rockets...
Sneak to the rescue! Sneak may or may not be successful. If you are unarmed with silent death, you will however be seen before attacking. Double damage still applies afaik, but triggerhappy opponents can and in many cases will make swiss cheese out of the sneaking bastard.. So, like i said many times, sneak should add an AC bonus - while sneak is active.
How much would not be OP considering the average ninja would have 43 AC? Sneak/12? With 120 sneak thats 53 AC. With 240, thats 63. With 150 skill from the opponent, thats roughly 87% hit chance. Aimed eye shot however, would be very risky to pull of, so IMO that 63 AC would be just fine for a ninja.
Over time however, players would adopt to the new sneakers, with increasing skills over 200+%. Because +1 skill gives +1% hit chance, and +1 sneak/unarmed gives only -1/12% it would still be underpowevered. Keeping sneak and unarmed on the same skill level however gives an edge, because with 200+% small guns for example the player requires alot more skillpoints, then with 150-150 sneak-unarmed.

K im tired, too many words, Ombra say something..

Ombra:
Dude, you can't absolutely compare a Minigun with an Hammer.
At the moment Melee are probably the weakest class of the game, even weaker than Unarmed, so it's more than fair to let them use Silent Death too. Remember that Knife is the STANDARD weapon of silent attack, and it's Melee (have you ever seen a guy sneakly go near another one and punch him in the head?).

HtH Evade is just one of many perks that need to be improved or gain use in RT (like Bonus Move).

In fact, I think Perks remake is one of the high priority changes for HtH, with Bonus HtH Damage fix and possibility to Run and attack.

FischiPiSti:
I allready pointed out what melee is missing, and for the record, my main is a melee doc, and my avatar is a frikkin sledgehammer, with an engraved sign saying "SuperSledge". Id say were on the same side, but as Lordus once said...or twice....well a few times: "Think globally"

I dont see melee as a sneaker class. Sneak has penalty with weight, armor, and most likely, weapons will have a penalty on them in the near future. I mean, its a must-have change. Melee weapons are weapons too. You could start talking to the guards in NCR that its just a harmless kitchen knife, you will die.

You said you agree that HtH needs better survivability.
I voted for unarmed: AC, melee: DR.
You cant sneak with high DR, armor has sneak penalty. I say, dont start a sneaker melee guy.

I have 15+5 bonus HtH damage on my melee dude, im quite happy with it thx. Need to confess tho that living anatomy helps greatly. Compared to unarmed, and snipers, bonus damage is almost as valuable for melee as its for minigunners, because melee weapons cost 2-3 AP. Not calculating aimed hits however, but because i have heavy handed, i gave up on crits, and set luck to 1, so now im trying to do serious damage with fast attacks, and compared to my unarmed character that has only 2 bonus damage but having mad crits, my melee dude is doing way more damage with 5 ripper slashes/turn and bonus ~7.5+5 dmg with each hit.
I bet your problem with bonus damage is that it doesnt increase min damage. But youre forgetting, that if you get higher tier weapons, those weapons have higher min damage. Just like ranged weapons. Just like everything in the game. Its not like current FA that has the SAME min heal LVL1-21, and there is NO way to increase that min value.

Melee has no problems with damage, needs DR and run and attack feature obviously, but thats it. No sneak, no AC, just good armor, high health. Only problem is the edge between ranged and close combat, because...Ranged guys can have the same armors and perks, and for that, melee needs some special skill/perk/item that is exclusive to them. Because PA is voted down, melee needs a new, exclusive perk.

Ombra:
If you give me +DR and run and attack I'm more than happy  :)
But don't say that Melee sneaker is innatural, because Unarmed is.

I've 15 bonus DMG and 1 LCK as well, but remember that "Bonus damage" is broken and not a bonus at all, but a +Max DMG instead, which, as I said a thousand times, need fix.

Remember also that for get 15 Bonus you need to use 3 Perks and get Heavy Handed as well, that fuck your crits... that's not a "little loss" and sure is not sufficient at the moment.

FischiPiSti:
Its working as intended. Same mechanics apply for bonus ranged damage aswell.
So if you want to add +min damage to HtH, you can count on it, that they will add +min damage to miniguns aswell. You dont want that.

Ripper: 15-47 * 5 with 10 AG/turn, no actionboy/jet. Thats 75-235. 155 average. No crits.
Sniper: 14-34 * 1 aimed shot to the eye with 10 AG/turn. No bonus damage because its useless for sniper, instead, a 3x average multiplier(guarenteed crit) with better criticals. 42-102. Im not counting instakills, because they are gay.

So, i would say melee damage is indeed working as intended.

However, these numbers dont apply to RT sadly, and wont, untill run/attack isnt implemented, and that other problem with AP regeneration doesnt get solved like i said in my other thread. Sadly, Lordus is in my way of world domination.

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