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[Ombra]

How is HtH system in TLA?

[RavenWolf]

In original fallout games, you have some perks that can make you a specific HtH fighter (Silent Death=assassin, HtH evade=pure unarmed). So based in that pseudo classes i have some suggestions for this game that can make HtH builds more interesting.

Assassin build:
(supported in fallouts games by Silent death perk)

Perks:
Backstabber: any melee attack made in the back with small melee weapons (knifes,ripper) has a +5% critical chance and 15% more critical factor.
req: lvl 15 80% melee. suggested pic:


Silent Death: melee attacks dont remove the sneaking status, but reduces your sneak at half (until the combat cooldown its over)
req: lvl 21 110% sneak, 110% melee or unarmed.
Like I suggest I the sneak thread, this effect (reduction of sneak but dont lose the status) also applies when you are hited sneaking.

Berserker build:
small support by original fallout games: adrenaline rush (useless perk), and die hard in FT.

New Trait:
-Berserker:  when hp are below 40% you enter in a blind rage and you can ignore the pain, you gain +10% DR*, +2 DT and -2PE /as downside any healing made on you heals only 50%, and doctors checks has a penalty of 40% .
*optional:+5% DR and ignore crippling.

Perks:
-Adrenaline Rush: +3 melee dmg and +1AP when hp are below 40%.
2 ranks, req: lvl 15 EN: >5 ST >5

Karate-unarmed build:

Maybe a special quest in san fran to train with Lo Pan or Dragon (a player can only train with one of both) and gain some special unarmed attack (punch or kick) or some bonus.

Perks:
Smashing hands: when you hit a target with unarmed weapons, he will have a -15% DR.

HtH evade: need to be reworked to be useful (and need to work), but I think AC need to be reworked first:http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=4592.0


Other suggestion:
Bonus HtH damage should add +3 melee dmg but only 2 ranks (Its a great sacrifice use 3 perks for +6 in max dmg)
and also can add +2 dmg for thowing weapons (not grenades).


This are suggestions for new perks/traits based on builds, that doesn’t mean that there will be classes like other RPGs. You can combine any of the suggested aspects to make the build that you want (Berserker unarmed, unarmed assassin, etc).

[Frosti]

This is madness. HtH is troll skill for bluesuits - it should never become more powerfull then guns and armors. Sneak (invisiblity) for blesuits is also wrong. What is worse then troll? Invisible troll.

*optional:+5% DR and ignore crippling.

unstoppable bleusuit HtH troll? No.

[RavenousRat]

This is madness. HtH is troll skill for bluesuits - it should never become more powerfull then guns and armors. Sneak (invisiblity) for blesuits is also wrong. What is worse then troll? Invisible troll.

unstoppable bleusuit HtH troll? No.

What about Melee? I can totally agree about Unarmed, yes, you don't need anything to hit someone into eyes in town, then die, then come again and do it again and again just to blind/cripple people for nothing and even kill them with eye-crits.
But Melee weapon is a weapon, so it can be boosted. Unarmed should be left as it is now.

[RavenWolf]

This is madness.

Madness?... THIS IS SPARTA!!
(Sorry, i cant ressist)

Sneak (invisiblity) for blesuits is also wrong. What is worse then troll? Invisible troll.

Invisibile bigguners is much worst.
 i dont want invisibility back, the actual sneak sistem seems fine. What is the point of sneak? get close to an enemy without been seeing, i think melee needs this to have a chance. if you dont like that bluesuit use it, well you can add a penalty to sneak with bluesuit, but they get a jacket and its the same.

HtH is troll skill for bluesuits - it should never become more powerfull then guns and armors.

I dont trying to make melee more powerful than gunners. (anyway, a ripper has to be better than a 10mm) I trying to add some balance and some point in melee builds.

To avoid bluesuit trolling unarmed need to be reworked. an unarmed char can do much dmg without any equipment. so nerf the dmg and criticals without weapons and make it only effective (in PvP) with power fist.

[FischiPiSti]

Berserker build

THATS IT! OFC! Adrenaline rush is the key.
HP under 50%, you go into a rage giving you + 30 DR, - 2 PE. Like when taking a psycho.
While enraged, you do not feel pity or remorse or fear and you cannot be stopped unless killed.
Requirements should reflect an average melee build with 8-10 STR, and ~90% melee. If you lose perception it would be useless for long range combat anyway..
Trait is not such a good idea tho imo

Edit:
Other comments:
Dont support the backstabber tbh, silent death does the same, and if melee could have at least ONE but valid route to take, that is DR, i think we should stick with that..
Dont support smashing hands either tbh, secondary attacks in unarmed does that allready by default :/

But yeah, HtH evade is a MUST, its just a matter of time before it gets implemented tho..
At first i supported the reworked AC thing, but then realized the problems: If AC would give a - % of hit chance, rather then a -% to enemy skill, it would be worthless to increase a combat skill above ~120-150. I dont think that would be such a great idea, as that would mean alot of skill points in other skills aswell.. Like instead of 200 SG sniper builds, one would take 150 SG and 150 BG and he would be equally effective with both kind of weapons. It would be better to give +AC perks, items, etc, to encourage increasing combat skills aswell.

Frosti either constructive or gtfo.

[Lil Jesus]

the biggest feature unarmed characters lack now is running when targeting.

Agreed.

"Only HtHrs can use Sneak" - LOL

[Gorlak]

<Drakonis> care to explain you running eye hits with a sledge?
<%ahbobsaget> what about it?
<%ahbobsaget> its call strategy
<%ahbobsaget>
<Drakonis> nothing, its just it was taking you like 0.1 sec to perform eye hit from run
<Drakonis> you saying its a trained ability to run and hit from running while your enemy is running as well?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yes, it surely is a trained ability.

Oh right, so what is everybody's big obsession with running and hitting feature??
I personally do NOT want to play a game in godamn cruise control mode, where slaves mine shit for you, or where you can select a target and run to them , while sitting back, thats weak.

[Roachor]

range 2 must give you enough time but range 1 doesn't. They are immediately out of range so you need to click them and click their eye in the time it takes them to click anywhere. You need them to stop to shoot and even then they get the first hit. No one slowly walks after a guy running with a gun to hit him.

[FischiPiSti]

<Drakonis> care to explain you running eye hits with a sledge?
<%ahbobsaget> what about it?
<%ahbobsaget> its call strategy
<%ahbobsaget>
<Drakonis> nothing, its just it was taking you like 0.1 sec to perform eye hit from run
<Drakonis> you saying its a trained ability to run and hit from running while your enemy is running as well?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yes, it surely is a trained ability.

Oh right, so what is everybody's big obsession with running and hitting feature??
I personally do NOT want to play a game in godamn cruise control mode, where slaves mine shit for you, or where you can select a target and run to them , while sitting back, thats weak.

Our obsession is, that:
In RT, shift+click next to target, select aimed shot, target opponent, drag window to corner to see, click on eyes upon reaching destination, OR if target moves, press esc, shift+click click click follow target untill he stops, click next to him, select aimed shot, PRAY THAT HE DOESNT MOVE, and pull off an eye shot is uncool when ranged has instant shots.

But yeah, as Roachor said, i have a supersledge too, so its easy mode for me, to hell with run+attack, i want to play hardcore

Ill just disable autorun in wow too when im playing PvP with my warrior because its 1337.

[Ombra]

I don't want to hear complete bullshit: run and hit is not a trained ability, 'cause every decent gunners can run away from you and escape if losing or kill you without let you escape if winning.

LiL Jesus and Frosti, as already said, be constructive or GTFO my thread.

[Archaeon_dude]

AGH!
ANSWERING OBJECTIVELY SUCKS!
Well... I can say:

Only HtHrs can use Sneak: it will be usable as a combat skill only by HtH fighters; it's more realistic (like ninjas and assassins) and it will improve HtH classes removing unrealistic use of Sneak ("big gunner predator" for example). Maybe devs can do this making Sneak unusable and auto-remove when you have any non-melee/unarmed weapon in one slot (it check both active and secondary slot).


I don't agree with this, it limits the expansion of the craft system for silenced weaponry and a buncha neat stuff. Also in near future we might have gauss rifles, and a projectile that floats in a vacuum chamber and is pulled by electromagnets is quite a bit unlikely to emmit sound since it has no ignition and it leaves the barrell with controlled pressure changes, unless we talkin' breaking sound barriers or stuff. Uh. Nevermind that.

You say backstabbing while effectively sneaking is hard with the way perception works at the time. I think we could: Make Silent Running an intrinsical perk of the 100-150% sneak level. Make hexes of the backside less perceptive and especially susceptible to sneak, AND add a *little* (5) damage bonus to >melee< sneak attacks even when one has already been sighted. You know? A ninja still stabs harder independently of either you see him or not. A bullet will always be a bullet.

[Roachor]

AGH!
ANSWERING OBJECTIVELY SUCKS!
Well... I can say:

Only HtHrs can use Sneak: it will be usable as a combat skill only by HtH fighters; it's more realistic (like ninjas and assassins) and it will improve HtH classes removing unrealistic use of Sneak ("big gunner predator" for example). Maybe devs can do this making Sneak unusable and auto-remove when you have any non-melee/unarmed weapon in one slot (it check both active and secondary slot).


I don't agree with this, it limits the expansion of the craft system for silenced weaponry and a buncha neat stuff. Also in near future we might have gauss rifles, and a projectile that floats in a vacuum chamber and is pulled by electromagnets is quite a bit unlikely to emmit sound since it has no ignition and it leaves the barrell with controlled pressure changes, unless we talkin' breaking sound barriers or stuff. Uh. Nevermind that.

You say backstabbing while effectively sneaking is hard with the way perception works at the time. I think we could: Make Silent Running an intrinsical perk of the 100-150% sneak level. Make hexes of the backside less perceptive and especially susceptible to sneak, AND add a *little* (5) damage bonus to >melee< sneak attacks even when one has already been sighted. You know? A ninja still stabs harder independently of either you see him or not. A bullet will always be a bullet.

http://www.livescience.com/common/media/video/player.php?videoRef=080201-railgun

[Ombra]

AGH!
ANSWERING OBJECTIVELY SUCKS!
Well... I can say:

Only HtHrs can use Sneak: it will be usable as a combat skill only by HtH fighters; it's more realistic (like ninjas and assassins) and it will improve HtH classes removing unrealistic use of Sneak ("big gunner predator" for example). Maybe devs can do this making Sneak unusable and auto-remove when you have any non-melee/unarmed weapon in one slot (it check both active and secondary slot).


I don't agree with this, it limits the expansion of the craft system for silenced weaponry and a buncha neat stuff. Also in near future we might have gauss rifles, and a projectile that floats in a vacuum chamber and is pulled by electromagnets is quite a bit unlikely to emmit sound since it has no ignition and it leaves the barrell with controlled pressure changes, unless we talkin' breaking sound barriers or stuff. Uh. Nevermind that.

You say backstabbing while effectively sneaking is hard with the way perception works at the time. I think we could: Make Silent Running an intrinsical perk of the 100-150% sneak level. Make hexes of the backside less perceptive and especially susceptible to sneak, AND add a *little* (5) damage bonus to >melee< sneak attacks even when one has already been sighted. You know? A ninja still stabs harder independently of either you see him or not. A bullet will always be a bullet.

You'll never get Gauss craftable, at least devs said so.

Sneak is actually weak for an HtH player because of the 3 hexes limit, your only hope is to run as hell and be fast as hell to click on the enemy (and you need even more time if you want to do a target shot and remember you need also to be on the back of enemy) to achieve a good "Silent Death" hit. After that he will simply escape and you can't caught him if he don't get knockback in the hit.

To be effective for HtH, Sneak need do rework limit of 3 hexes and make more susceptible to Sneak and enemy's PER.
Or this will be the usual advantage for gunners and useless option for HtHs.

[Archaeon_dude]

http://www.livescience.com/common/media/video/player.php?videoRef=080201-railgun

Nice comeback! I don't understand where did the fire come from D: Is that projectiled loaded with anything?

I could not understand most of what Ombra said. Could you please clarify and expand?