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[Ombra]

Suggestion day, lol.
Anyway I planned to write this days ago, so I'll do it now.


Refer also to this old suggestion post: http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=1294.0 (with winning pool for Melee Chars)



As many of you have noticed, the melee/unarmed player has almost no PvP utility at all, apart from meatshield.
Fallout world is usually well-crowded of melee gangs, big brutes with large hammer, martial artists, boxers and so on.
Unlucky, FOnline is not.

With RT fights Melee are totally fucked up for two obvious reason: they have to stay near the target and they are brutalized by long range sniper who see you while you don't see them (melee get low PER usually) and also get continuos knockback from any gunner.

One of the few (or maybe only) advantage they get is weapons-related: they don't use ammunitions and don't need to craft them (but Rippers and similar need it!) and also there is no weapon deterioration.


I've some suggestions for the classes. I don't say to include THEM all, but just get one or a combination of some.

• Fix Melee Damage (also refer to this post in bug section: http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=962.0 ): the description say "Amount of bonus damage a character does in hand-to-hand combat" but in the system this is not bonus damage at all. Actually every point in Melee Damage is ADDED to the maximum damage of the weapon (not even the minimum!), reducing drastically the usefulness.
  I think there are two ways to fix this: make damage added to minimum as well (Spear with 3-10 base dmg + 5 Melee Damage = 8-18 dmg) or you can bring Melee Damage to origin and make it a REAL bonus with the following formula: [(Melee Weapon DMG - DMG Threshold) - DMG Resistance%] + Melee DMG Bonus = Total DMG dealt.
• Boost evasion and/or enemy miss chance: give to Melee/Unarmed character the advantage of major evasion bonus, enhancing AC and/or chance of hit you. This can be related to skill level of Melee Weapons and Unarmed Weapons or, if possible, to distance of the enemy (closer you are, less chance to hit you).
• Convert some Perks in Melee/Unarmed only: some of those "dead" perks can be converted in favor of HtH ones.
  For example:
  "Bonus Move: you are more resistant to enemy fire. You have less chance to getting knockback while running".
  "Adrenaline Rush: when you are less than 40% HP you Resistance Damage is improved of 10%"
  "Dodger: you know how easily dodge any attack. Your weakest body parts (eyes, head) are harder to hit"
  You can make those perks HtH-only by adding STR, END, Melee Weapons and/or Unarmed Weapons as requirement.
• Only HtHrs can use Sneak: it will be usable as a combat skill only by HtH fighters; it's more realistic (like ninjas and assassins) and it will improve HtH classes removing unrealistic use of Sneak ("big gunner predator" for example). Maybe devs can do this making Sneak unusable and auto-remove when you have any non-melee/unarmed weapon in one slot (it check both active and secondary slot).
• Run and Hit: It can be a perks or a server change; anyway, HtH need to run and attack, not walk and attack. This will greatly improve their efficiency. When you click to attack an enemy, your character run, reach him and attack instead of walk.

I hope you people appreciate the suggestion. I'm not trying to make the hand-to-hand classes overpowered, I just want to make them more competitive.

I want to hear your thoughts about it and devs opinion as well.


P.S. Sorry for my english :p

[gordulan]

leave bonus move as it is, i use it for PvE

[vedaras]

the biggest feature unarmed characters lack now is running when targeting.

[Ombra]

leave bonus move as it is, i use it for PvE

lol, it was just an example, I don't want to ruin other characters 

[avv]

Any time! Unarmed and melee deserve buff. But not until everyone is either punished from dying some more serious way or this kind of system implemented:

When unarmed char dies, he loses all his cool special attacks like piercing kick, haymaker, jab etc. He has to go buy them from some trainer dude. Otherwise unarmed players have nothing to lose when fighting.

[Arry]

It's a very good suggestion. I'm trying PvP with unarmed char right now, I have to say it is a bit hard. There is a very little pros and a lot of cons.

Pros:
-You don't get the first shot, you don't have weapons
-You can easily knockback
-You're good against snipers, but you need to be in front of them
-When you're in front of someone you catch his attention, good point for your allies
-You don't need hard stuff to fight, you are the first on the battlefield and you loose an epsilon when you die
-If you have sneak, you are the cheapest and fastest scout able to fight

Cons:
-You need a lot of HPs, or a very good sneak
-Hard to level-up without playing experiences
-Hard to reach someone without sneak
-Armored and drugged soldier are hard to kill
-Good kicks or punchs needs 8-9AP with HtH Attacks
-You need patience
-YOU CAN'T RUN AND ATTACK
-Items like knuckles are useless, a strong punch with 6STR is better than Spiked Knuckles
-You are not very efficient in teambattle

-->The primary issue that must be fixed is attack & running.
--> Revorking some useless perks is a very good idea
-->Make melee weapon/knuckles usefull, if you are able to perform a Haymaker, why can't you with a knuckle ? It is possible to perform special punch with a weapon ?

I add idea about sneak and Hth

While sneaking ONLY, Silent Death should have a bonus crit(or more damage) for the first attack in the back


Avv, how can you loose a kick you master by dying ? This idea will ruin MORE unarmed than ever. Special attacks are not overpowered, I find them quite weak actually, 10AP for a piercing kick in the eyes with Bonus HtH attacks is hard...

[Ombra]

I've quite your same impressions, Arry 

If FOnline as the same Sneak system of Fallout 2, the first attack from Sneak is always with bonus damage...
Anyway: if regardless of Sneak lvl and enemy PER you are always seen at 3 hexes or less, how the hell you Sneak Attack in melee? 

[Arry]

You can't attack without being seen but, the simple fact to have [Sneak] + Silent Death + In the back should give you a bonus

[Ombra]

This sounds pretty useless to me 

Anyway, at least we need a general boost, even if not "assassin" style (which would be awesome  )

[Roachor]

Any time! Unarmed and melee deserve buff. But not until everyone is either punished from dying some more serious way or this kind of system implemented:

When unarmed char dies, he loses all his cool special attacks like piercing kick, haymaker, jab etc. He has to go buy them from some trainer dude. Otherwise unarmed players have nothing to lose when fighting.

That's one of the worst ideas I've ever seen. Your fighting ability shouldn't be "forgot" when you die or no one will ever make an unarmed char. Not needing items is the only benefit since you're useless in pvp.

[Izual]

Pros:
-You don't get the first shot, you don't have weapons
-You can easily knockback
-You're good against snipers, but you need to be in front of them
-When you're in front of someone you catch his attention, good point for your allies
-You don't need hard stuff to fight, you are the first on the battlefield and you loose an epsilon when you die
-If you have sneak, you are the cheapest and fastest scout able to fight

I think the same. You have nothing to lose, with a few medic skills you're ready one minute after your death, and you can do tremendous criticals. Well, imo this is enough. Plus, I'm sure (I tested it) that Unarmed is really working when you mix it with other skills (Guns skills or Sneak, for example).

[vedaras]

I think the same. You have nothing to lose, with a few medic skills you're ready one minute after your death, and you can do tremendous criticals. Well, imo this is enough. Plus, I'm sure (I tested it) that Unarmed is really working when you mix it with other skills (Guns skills or Sneak, for example).

nah these works only against noobs, in real time clever enemies just run away from you till you walk and kill you. unarmed is very good skill pve but in pvp its just useless.

[Izual]

Well, yeah, I suppose so. I was trying to get examples of real-time games where you can win with a sword against a rifle, but I just realized there's none.

[gordulan]

exteel? i pwn people with blade & shield

[Izual]

& superpowers. =p Real people or NPCs ?