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Stealing - serious business.

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Neuromancer:
At first I want to share a story.
Long time ago ... ( about 1-2 wipes ago )
I've been making some shopping in hub. I actually wanted to sell some weapons so I went to south of hub and started trading. Everything was perfect - merchant had some caps, he gave me a good price ... and then I see weapons disappearing from my backpack ( actually from trade window ). So I turned back thinking "What the hell?" and I saw some stranger running out of shop. I started to chase him, ignoring everything else. He went to a hotel where he had room reserved. He entered room and then locked himself. I was really furious ... shouted to him to come out ... so I won't hurt him when he gives my stuff back etc. nothing worked - he just laughed ... so I asked some of my mates if they know a good lockpicker - luckily one of them was a thief/burglar so I gathered a party behind his door - all of them ready for execution - lockpicker arrived and opened the door ... I don't have to tell you end of this story ... but this was fucking most satisfying thing that happened to me in fonline.

Yes ... vengance is sweetest thing.

I always was concerned about details, RP, plot in all games ... actually only games I really enjoyed were cRPGs. So I find that these little things like stealing really needed despite it makes people mad/angry/furious when they get robbed. After that particular situation nobody ever succesfully stealed from me - because I was really paranoid when I had lot's of caps with me - trading only with window at top - while seeing my character - running away when someone entered shop etc ... then flags were introduced so it was even easier - because if someone really managed to steal from me - he got bullet between his eyes. So it depended on player's perception and caution if he got robbed or not and I believe that should stay that way. Of course many people were robbed and discussion started upon forums ... present situation is result of these negotiations ... which is really really bad - making game easier ( step towards casual players ) doesn't mean making game better.


PS: And I personally dislike such solutions. Similar is guards with 5000hp etc. there is always a better way than pure power/strenght solutions. This is field for roleplayers to fill ( with help from gm's ) - for example instead of spawning 10 more guards just make a NPC who survived massacre who will tell everybody what happened - make a prize for killing those vigilants, or if junktown got raided - they sent help for BOS so if one of their patrols spot them they'll execute them, make whole wasteland know that people responsible for massacre would be punished - make THEIR karma -5000 at all except of raiders INSTEAD of making little robbers karma -4000 after taking few caps.

PS2: I've never had thief and never wanted to play as one, but I realise that even if I got robbed - fonline will be more interesting game to play ( even if somebody plays as a crafter/trader etc. )
 

Midnight:
Wrong Viewpoint? lol
The only real viewpoint for a game is making it balanced, fun and if possible hve diversity allowing to play many different ways because it's your style not because it's the only way to success.
Fallout2 was the perfect exemple for monoplayer.

Now Fallout2 is the same as realty? don't think so.


For stealing, the fact is not making it easier or harder it's to make it more interresting and balanced were you are not face to situation you have simply no option.
You can't steal if you have not at least 200% cause it would screw completly the game if you can steal with 100% and the actual though is almost no one will play Thief cause of this. I can't understand guys who find this good. On the other hand 200% stealing and you can do what you want no one can do anything against you, and again, be cautious is not enough, moving do not interrupt thief and so you simply stop speaking to NPC, crafting or else cause you  have no option.

Tyler:
I completely agree with everything Neuromancer just said.It used to be a part of the world and I miss players like Lutik and Jasin even if they were annoying as hell.If a player cant be bothered to pay attention to his surroundings then he is responsible for what he lost almost as much as the thief who took it.Receiving negetive karma for a succussfull theft is also strange because if its successfull then how the hell does anyone know about it?I can kill and murder players all day long and suffer little for it but taking a few stims will ruin a man?We talk about lack of variety in the wastelands characters and I think this is a good example of something we should add back into it the world for a little extra flavor.

For the record Ive never had nor will I ever have a thief character because I despise them and will always kill one whenever I have the chance.

Neuromancer:
Generally speaking - forcing people not to steal or raiding towns makes game flat. Those situations ( stealing, raiding etc. ) are some kind of player involved, self inducting events - which shouldn't stay unpunished but should be allowed. Please keep in mind when developing - make this game more complex not flat.

Spoonman:

--- Quote from: Sius on April 15, 2010, 07:49:32 pm ---This guy has 0% speech, don't listen to him!

Ok now seriously. First of all that "if this was real" is the worst argument ever used to backup your game development suggestions (and I used it too and I feel that eternal pain awaits me for that).  Its nice if game copy reality but only there where it serves as a feature that brings fun and opportunities. If it should work as some of you want then we should be making suggestions for "Second Life: The Wasteland" edition and not FOnline. If this was like a real wasteland most people would give a shit about others being robbed even in "guarded" cities. And how the hell they should share such info with other factions? And why on Earth would other factions give a shit about some guy that tried to steal something in city that is half continent away from them? Mainly if this was like a real wasteland you would not respawn and thats it for this "argument".

If game features some skills and abilities then I suppose they are there to be used by players that desire it. And I'm pretty sure that devs are aware of that current stealing is useless. So I think its just a matter of time until we will find some steal boosting changelog.

--- End quote ---

Alright, just because I tried to use a "real life" example doesn't make the statement untrue.  No, I'm not trying to make this a Second Life clone.  Where there are cities with laws, the people (or at least the guards) should give a shit about someone not following the rules.  And they should share info with other factions the exact way I said so in my post.  Obviously caravans and traders travel from city to city and patrols must overlap sometimes. 

You're also wrong on your Fallout lore on a couple areas on your post.  Fallout 1/2 took place within the state of California, so nowhere on the whole map is "half continent away" from anywhere else.  Factions would give a shit about helping out eachother when they depend on eachother for survival in terms of trading for goods that they can't product themselves.  As the world is pretty small news would travel fast, especially with working radios and constant travelers.  Also, according to the lore of 2238 there are the resurrection hubs which end up bringing us back.  So no, not everything has to be exactly realistic, but it would be stupid to ignore a good idea just because it would have relevance in the real world.

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