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Stealing - serious business.

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avv:

--- Quote from: iicca on April 15, 2010, 02:29:00 pm ---You have to realize that A role-playing game is a games in which players take a roles of characters in a fictional setting. Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines. So by all means Fonline is an mmorpg and imo should be brought closer to the rpg than mmo.
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You play the role of thief but it still doesn't have to mean that the character does all the thinking for you. You succeed if you outsmart your victim, not when your character outsmarts your victim's character. It's the basic of every succesful multiplayer game that more skilled player defeats less skilled player. It shouldn't be surprising at all.


--- Quote from: iicca on April 15, 2010, 02:29:00 pm ---Imo stealth system needs an overhaul but not so that it doesn't need a skill "steal". Skills are the soul and heart of Fallout games, and to achieve what you want needs a proper skill level. This game should be by all means character dependant with a player skill twist. Which only refers to common sense.
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High skill levels deciding how succesful you are promote only powerbuilds. It takes about 500 skillpoints to cap a tagged skill. Skills are heart and soul of fallout because they were needed when competing against npc enemies. So by your logic if skills directly measured the effectiveness of a player's char, you could buy and sell items for higher or lower price when bartering with other players. Let's say you want to buy a 10mm pistol and someone asks you to buy 200 for it. But you happen to have low barter and he has high so you end up paying 10k caps for it. That's not even the end of it, someone with ch10, speech 300 and all speech related perks comes to you, says few words and makes you kill yourself because he's so good at convincing that life sucks. This is what happens when player's effectiveness is based purely on skill%.
If you want player skill twist to take place, then skill% cannot have major role in success, they would only decide what you can do, not how well.

Pandemon:
+1 for idea to make pvp harder. Maybe not that way, but if crafting/mining/healing has cooldown why attacking hasn't?

Ombra:
Thief is an hard work  :)
I don't have a thief alt, but I agree: the current kill-reputation system is completely senseless. Reduce it.

Midnight:
There was cooldown in Fo2 too you only don't have the figures.

Anyway some cooldown are a bit too long yeah and some are a bit ridiculous (when you loot junks or flowers on the ground :/)
shooting have a cooldown too, it's your APs ... So ... cooldown are not stupid, they only need some tweaks like many other things.

Maybe cooldown depending on skills would be great, having high Str/End reduce time for mining. As an exemple.
Put a big cooldown on repair but make that you can use the skill with less than 200 % :/ and diminish the cooldown when you have more than 120% etc

If a bit of cooldown on thief offer an alt to the reputation why not? Not sure it will solve the whome problem but it could be a start.
And if there is one way to make thief have a brain when doing thievery, better than saying you insanities cause you can't do nothing against... i would be the first happy about a lower requirement for them too, cause it would be really fair, and more what some guys call role play.
A thief stealing you and saying "suck my dick" right in front of guard is something that bugs me. Where is the role here?

Sius:

--- Quote from: vedaras on April 15, 2010, 02:56:29 pm ---Yeah with vendors, you come to trade, someone tries to steal, you move a little and trade since thief is on cd.

noone steals in northern towns, and quests are kidna shitty in item reward in safe towns, so i do not agree about stealing in quests.

And no stealing is 100% risk (since you will always lose huge amounts of reputation no matter what will be stealing result) and no reward job (since even if you will steal something successfully you will be owned by guards). And is i said before, people can hold items in hands none stands in ncr with 30 ba 5 minuguns 1000 bullets and 50k caps in inventory. And i still see many ways to solve problem, make bigger cooldown for example, stealing with cooldown depending on skill, like former doctor skill, where you could reach something like 200 seconds cooldown with best skill. Then people wouldnt need to keep running from thieves. And its just one example how thievery problem could be easily solved.

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Got to agree with this one. But I still think that 30-60 sec for 1 steal is just enough and imho cooldown should not exceed this scale. Anyway I'll once again remind myself with http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2860.0 (few changes done) =>


--- Quote ---- stealing should be weight/size based so small items like caps or ammo should be easy to steal
- Pickpocket perk should get really nerfed = without it you can steal only smaller stuff (caps/ammo...) and with it big stuff will be still risky even with higher skill (when you want something like CA or rifles then you have to risk getting caught)
- reputation should not decrease when you steal successfully
- reputation should decrease not per item stolen but only per unsuccessfu AND noticed steal
- reputation drop per noticed steal should not cross -100/200 reputation points and this number should decrease with higher CH/speach/steal/sneak skill (just pick one or combine them). I mean it should be possible to "talk your way out of it" even when you get caught. You would still be punished (= flagged and killed) and you would loose reputation just not that much (some -100 to -30 points depending on your speech or something like that).
- stealing should be boosted by sneaking since more "invisible" you are for your victims lesser the chance they will notice

So eventually when you steal, you risk and you risk even more when you try to steal something big and valuable. But in the end you should be able to steal smaller stuff without any problems but when you get caught you still risk getting killed by player or flagged by guard = karma drop. So when you steal too much without keeping an eye on your karma you will soon be disliked at that area making it even more risky to walk around there. But when you are really pro thief some smaller robberies should not be any problem for you if players themselves are not cautious enough to spot you.
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