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[blahblah]

Well I can suggest reading on history because there are many instances in real life where unarmed individuals were murdered. Also no one is preventing you from playing, you log in, that its it, you are playing. If you are referring to enjoying the game, well that is different, because if you are not dead then the faction controlling the town isn't enjoying the game, so this reasoning is subjective.

And this is not real life. It is a game meant to be played for fun. And enjoying doing things that prevent others from enjoying the game is called griefing and makes you a jerk. If killing everyone on entry is cool because you enjoy being a jerk, then I suggest finding a shrink as that's sociopathic behaviour.

[JustGreat]

And this is not real life. It is a game meant to be played for fun. And enjoying doing things that prevent others from enjoying the game is called griefing and makes you a jerk. If killing everyone on entry is cool because you enjoy being a jerk, then I suggest finding a shrink as that's sociopathic behaviour.

Assuming I take it for fact that killing people in a video game make you a sociopath, it doesn't take away from the fact that different people have different ways of enjoying the game. So saying the Devs should cater to your well being while either disregarding or crippling the enjoyment of the "sociopaths" is selfish and uncalled for.
You can say that these "sociopaths" are selfish, and are doing exactly as you, but that would be incorrect as they are acting within the bounds of the game, and are not say asking the Devs for whenever you die you lose one level or something of that nature.

[Karpov]

Why would a warlord order anyone approaching his city be killed? It doesn't make sense, right?!

actually it does not, despite your sarcasm. What I meant to say is that the money you get from the city is not, or should not be heaven sent. My idea was to make the "income" to be more dynamic and realistic, as I said before a dead city is a poor city. Also make the faction think before they attack if they are really competent to administrate a city, it is "Town Control" not "Town Loot"

[Spoonman]

It's not griefing, it's actual strategy if you want to keep control of a city.  Every single person who comes in could be a threat to your town control if they're there to suicide kill militia or possibly even lead a town takeover.  It's safer for you to shoot first and lock down your town so no one wants to come to it anymore.

[blahblah]

Assuming I take it for fact that killing people in a video game make you a sociopath, it doesn't take away from the fact that different people have different ways of enjoying the game.

Read my whole sentence. I don't call people shooting other virtual characters sociopaths. I mean the people who deliberately spend most of their time not doing anything else than preventing other players from enjoying the game. And if they do it for a long time, and enjoy it really, then that's no longer a jerk but a sociopath who takes pleasure in knowing they stop others from having fun.

Doing this a few times makes you a jerk, once maybe even funny. Doing this as the only source of entertainment for hours daily makes you sociopath with problems:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yoCmITo30U

So saying the Devs should cater to your well being while either disregarding or crippling the enjoyment of the "sociopaths" is selfish and uncalled for.
You can say that these "sociopaths" are selfish, and are doing exactly as you, but that would be incorrect as they are acting within the bounds of the game, and are not say asking the Devs for whenever you die you lose one level or something of that nature.

Once again, what enjoyment? Griefing others? I don't want to disable PvP or anything. Just wanted to get rid of one unnecessary aspect that stops the game for some.
And I'd actually rather see players lose a level on death rather than allow for complete blocking of towns. I know how to avoid dying most of the time. But it's not possible to avoid going to one place that's ruled by lunatics if you want to advance in the game.

It's not griefing, it's actual strategy if you want to keep control of a city.  Every single person who comes in could be a threat to your town control if they're there to suicide kill militia or possibly even lead a town takeover.  It's safer for you to shoot first and lock down your town so no one wants to come to it anymore.

No. It's a griefing tool. Yes, you can shoot everyone, but if you are inside the city. Guarding it. What I wanted to disable is an automatic way of killing anyone without even needing a living person supervising the place.
See someone suspicious - bam, kill him. But not log out and let the militia do it for you.



And as I've edited my first post, this is slightly irrelevant although still I fail to see the point in autokill. If it truly exists. Because nobody confirmed or denied that claim.

[VongJin]

guys stop crying on forum. U need to do something to get something. Even if dev's will change TC system they will not do it quick. so i suggest u some solutions:

 If u need to join raders - u can ask a current TC gang to let u complete quest(try to offer them some caps or usefull stuff)
 If u need to trade with local traders - u can ask a current TC gang to let u do it for some % of deal.
 U can do whatever u want in this game if u can speak and have brains.

[Nice_Boat]

actually it does not, despite your sarcasm. What I meant to say is that the money you get from the city is not, or should not be heaven sent. My idea was to make the "income" to be more dynamic and realistic, as I said before a dead city is a poor city. Also make the faction think before they attack if they are really competent to administrate a city, it is "Town Control" not "Town Loot"

Ok, so here's the thing that's going to shatter your vision of the world ( ) : low level players wouldn't count anyway. Their capital (and, consequently, economic capacity) is almost nil. There's absolutely no reason to let them in even if income is trade-based as you could get more stuff from a single gang trader or a loner that actually made a name for himself. The point is gangers know the people who count and already have a set attitude towards them depending on their alignment. Nothing would change. The guys who whine and moan about getting killed in the north die because of their incompetence and/or lack of experience, not because of some details of game mechanics. You'd have to redesign the game to have it any other way... or introduce something rather silly, like TC window or NPC guards like in the NCR.

And as far as your "heaven sent" argument goes, please allow me to retort. Gang members have taken the city by force. I'd assume they're not politely asking to get their payment and it could just as well be along the lines of "I want my money now or XYZ will be hanged in the town square in 15 minutes". It's not like the NPCs can call the police. Impossible? Out of setting? I hardly think so. Oh, and city NPCs do trade by themselves (caravans, their own mining etc.).

Furthermore, if a gang leaves the city somewhat open and taxes player activity it can already have a lot of profit, from a share of what's being dug in the mine to a tax on getting the profession there. I'd assume that it's worth it since a lot of people have been acting like that lately. So yeah, there's already an additional reward for letting people in.

[JovankaB]

As much as I agree it's a harsh world, and TC faction can do whatever they want, I think there should be some economy-based penalty for keeping the town a place of killing random people who arrive. If you rule the town like North Korean death camp, you can't expect that it will prosper. For example less caps could be generated in town merchants, or maybe there could be some "traveling merchants" added who would avoid places where a lot of people are killed without a reason (who don't attack/steal/block) etc.

[blahblah]

The guys who whine and moan about getting killed in the north die because of their incompetence and/or lack of experience, not because of some details of game mechanics. You'd have to redesign the game to have it any other way... or introduce something rather silly, like TC window or NPC guards like in the NCR.

You've forgotten what I was against originally, and still am, but have no way of checking it as nobody else answered this. This suggestion was about exactly a detail of game mechanics killing players.
It was against an automated way of killing players without any action needed from the controlling faction. It's not that a player is inexperienced or stupid. It's autokill for even skilled diplomats. Because the brute standing at the door says "no entry" and if you avoid him you get shot by ten rockets by the militia when they spot you. So the only option for a person who wants to play the game is park his character on the worldmap and stop playing for a week or five until the controlling bunch of jerks gets kicked out, because next time you may not get so lucky and get your package back.

It's not about dying or even losing stuff. Hell, not even losing levels. It's about stopping the game dead in its tracks for someone who wants to play this or that character. Call me a whiner, but if being a jerk is something peachy and you love to see more of it in game because it's realistic and post-apo, then you're taking this way too serious for a game.

[Gothmog]

Hmm i have a idea !! Lets implement somthing like death couter - different in each city. If faction who is in charge of city kill for example. 100 innocent people (gang shoot first to them) then the city turn againt that cruel gang. And citizens and militia fight with this gang. They should be a sign to everybody that for example: Madoc people fight againt XXX Gang. So everyone can join them.

And the second idea !!

Lets do a random encouter in different Towns that one of the major NPC group  overrun this town from time to time killing:
1)Enclave - every one
2)NCR Rangers - gang members + militia of this town and slavers
3)BOS - gang members + militia of this town and every one they dont like (karma)
4)ect...

This could be a refreshig "reboot" of each city form time to time.

What you think ?

[DrapiChrust]

As much as I agree it's a harsh world, and TC faction can do whatever they want, I think there should be some economy-based penalty for keeping the town a place of killing random people who arrive. If you rule the town like North Korean death camp, you can't expect that it will prosper. For example less caps could be generated in town merchants, or maybe there could be some "traveling merchants" added who would avoid places where a lot of people are killed without a reason (who don't attack/steal/block) etc.

Of course it should. Only that the devs tried to do sth like that ONCE and in some way it didn't worked as they wanted. Starting from that time, they automatically turn down any idea like that, as it 'won't work anyway'. That's strange, players from TLA are sometimes the same people who play 2238 and still, they can organise themselves to keep a city safe (at least from time to time ;]), yet 'our' devs are sure that there is no way to encourage gangs to actually protect their cities... dammit, of course gangs are making a massacre there right now, while it is just easier than move one's ass and do something more complicated than killing people on sight

(IMHO most people of TC towns should have moved out from there a long time ago, who can stand living on the frontline?)

I realise that PvP guys ARE a large part of our little society here and that there must be an organised way of large PvP actions, or 'wars', gangwar is very Fallout, isn't it? BUT I also think things like TC won't ever work too good as current TC gangs simply aren't interested in nothing else than killing and quickly getting money and resources for killing. Unless there is a working alternative of organised PvP, town control has to stay. When (or rather if) there will be another thing like this implemented, the TC can then safely change into sth more connected in actually controlling/defending a city.

[Lordus]

 It is little sad, that pre wipe biggest anti PK faction (NAlliance) is still enough big, but they are PK now. Before wipe, there was reason for this big alliance, because it was created against hostile world and other PK. Now, it is only because of afraid of loosing in combat with other players. It is sad, because i think that in current TC mechanism, they will be more succesful with they previous goal, to make Den city safe.

 It is harder, but i think more satisfying, if you see that pure PvP city is safe for people. But try to explain this if you looking to mad Cajuns eyes

[gordulan]

so, NA is evil now, huh...  ... well, my trips to the north have been cancelled indefinetly until some "good" guys will come into the picture...

[Surf]

I know it's not really a solution, but try to go to the norther towns at night, when they're not crowded. Arm yourself, there could be still some individual and shoot them in the face when you see them. Unfortunately there is no other way...

[gordulan]

yeah, and being a doctor kinda puts me at a disadvantage, although i still have some levels to boost my weapons skills.