Co-op

[hexer]

We're seriously discussing within the team to implement Van Buren's "Play With A Friend" as a 2 co-op like in Divinity Original Sin. Is that possible to do in FOnline?

[fonliner]

If you ask me it is possible because one person run server on his pc and then give IP to his friends but... it will work like normal server, so I don't know if it is what you want. Let see what others say.

[JovankaB]

We're seriously discussing within the team to implement Van Buren's "Play With A Friend" as a 2 co-op like in Divinity Original Sin. Is that possible to do in FOnline?

Maybe check if it's possible to connect to game running in SinglePlayer mode. If not
then probably the only way is to run a server locally, then 2 players connect to it.

Also before you start, better ask yourself if you know one example of a successful
coop CRPG, that is not pure hack&slash like Diablo. There are plot-heavy CRPGs
with coop modes but I never heard about anyone actually having much fun playing
them like that.

[hexer]

Also before you start, better ask yourself if you know one example of a successful
coop CRPG, that is not pure hack&slash like Diablo. There are plot-heavy CRPGs
with coop modes but I never heard about anyone actually having much fun playing
them like that.

We were encouraged by the recent success of Divinity Original Sin which implemented it right. It's one of the game's strongest points as it seems by the journalist / fan reviews.

We were planning on making coop limited to just you and a friend, with friend taking up a companion slot.

[lisac2k]

Leave it for the next stretch goal... oh, wait! That won't work! 

Yeah, I know what you think - now's the right moment, you're just about to get on your scripts, so you could plan/implement co-op along with the SP from the start... well you are right, you could.

Technically it should be possible, but you would have to consider the decision from the designer point of view i.e. you would have to imagine concrete situations the players will be finding themselves in. And there could be a lot of such situations, concerning the current scope of your game, quests, outcomes, vars and what not. Not to forget the game balance, can you balance the both modes and keep it fun at the same time? (D:OS can serve as a solid example, I agree) Additionally can/will the second player break something along the way (quest-flow, triggers, quest dialogues/story etc.) and how to avoid that? And then there are resources needed, usually more scripting and testing required, i.e. tougher bugs with even bigger brain-hungry mandibulae etc.

Take a few days for a thorough discussion, you need time for such decision.

I would personally go with a SP, and once you release a nice quality product and receive all the flowers and medals, you can plan and develop co-op on a smaller scale (one chapter or a demo) and extend it further, depending on your resources and willpower. Of course, it's just my humble opinion, you know about the analogy with 'asses' already 

[hexer]

Good answer, bro! Yes, this is indeed something we have to think through better before deciding if we're going to do it immediately or later.

[Lexx]

About FOnline Coop, some points of thought:

- All variables in the game always need to be saved for every player, even if only the host is online (so everything must be a global variable OR a variable tied to NPCs only (if in dialog)). This helps to avoid breaking quests and such.
- Also this way, every player can talk to the NPCs. If you end the dialog and a different player talks to the NPC, the last "spoken progress" remains saved, due to global variables. Why this is good: Less prone to bugs, less work with writing the dialog (why does he talk like we meet the first time? You just talked to my friend a second ago!), easier to track progress for the writer.
- everything the NPC "says" needs to be a float text over his head. Same applies to the player: Every option he choses must be shown to other players as well, or dialogues will turn into two guys looking at each other for every player who isn't talking to an NPC.
- All players must be forced to stay in the same map at any time. Having players wander over the worldmap generates problems:
   1. It's a source of additional bugs (players conflicting each other in quests, for example)
   2. you can't advance the daytime if one player is in a town and another traveling on the worldmap. Everyone traveling at the same time will allow progressing time / make it more believable.
- You might want to allow players to stay in different maps in the same location (location is split in multiple maps most of the time) when they have radios equipped or something. Helps for believability (staying in contact with each other without being right next to each other).

There was more stuff we talked about a while ago, but I don't remember the details anymore. Players dying / reviving is something you'll have to deal with too. It is highly unfun to die fast (and you usually find your death fast in a Fallout game) and then your character is gone. So it needs a new mechanic that deals with that.


I always wanted to make a small coop game prototype to prove that this stuff can work. But it's hard to find someone to help with that, as it relies a lot on (AngelScript) programmer skills, and less on game design (this doesn't require to be a tale of superb game writing, it's just about the mechanics and proving that they work, after all).

[hexer]

Thanks for your insight Lexx, we can work on that co-op prototype together later. I will certainly try next year when we start with serious programming!