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Author Topic: Starting build & Guide  (Read 6958 times)

Eternauta

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Starting build & Guide
« on: March 20, 2013, 05:08:08 am »

I am copypasting an edited version of something I posted in an already existing thread. This is just a quick starting guide which I might or might not be upgraded in the future. I hope it is useful for new players.

First thing to learn in this game is that a very harsh Build Darwinism rules it. Maybe you'd be confortable starting with this build:

[CLICK TO ENLARGE]


With it you can defeat weaker enemies (Small Guns), craft some weapons and armor (Repair), and travel on Worldmap quickly, which means more safely (Outdoorsman). It has relatively good CW which allows to gather materials for your first crafting and carry items for trading operations. You will also be able to dismantle some basic farmed items to get a few resources (Science). Keep in mind that you will do A LOT better in each of these activities if you use alts with specialized builds, but that can wait some time.

If you do use this build, first thing to do is to travel to the Gun Runners (the Fortress in the Boneyard) and get a bonus to Small Guns. You can then level a bit more doing quests.

When you start levelling up, make sure you raise Science to 100 as soon as possible. Do NOT spend skill points on anything else until you get Science 100, which allows you to get the Educated support perk (more skill points per level). Once you have the Educated perk, I recommend you to raise Repair to 50, to get some professions: crafting Explosive Rockets/Combat Shotguns is a good way to get some items via NPC trading. Small Guns Profession 1 enables you to craft Grease Guns, which is the best weapon to kill Khan raiders in Turn-Based (they drop moar Grease Guns and .45 for you, as well as Shotguns & shells, and FN FALs & 7.62).

After getting Repair 50, raise Small Guns and Outdoorsman to 100, then focus on Small Guns until you reach 200, which you need for the combat perks. Then get Outdoorsman to 150 and then you'll have a good amount of skill points free, you can do with them what you want. Maybe spend all in Lockpick and look for Blueprints? Or raise First Aid and Doctor so you can patch yourself or your friends up during Real Time combat? Or raise Speech to be able to lead more NPCs, maybe even become a slaver? Or you could already start levelling another character with a specialized build, for example a PvE Big Gunner or Laser Rifle fastshooter for better farming, a good slaver character to make more caps, maybe your first PvP character...

About PvP, you need to understand that most PvP here is done with ridiculously drugged builds and you'll most probably be dead in seconds if you meet a player who is willing to shoot you, unless you are using one of such builds yourself. First focus on PvE, for good PvP you need a solid economic infrastructure. Once you have it, you can start experimenting PvP and/or RP.

Everytime you have a doubt, check the game wiki, and if the info you are looking for cannot be found there, just then you should make a reply in the Questions and Answers thread. But try to look for the info yourself, this is a game where it's always better to be able to do things yourself without needing others too much, including getting information. Do not be afraid to test game mechanics and explore maps, after all you can always make an alt if you don't want to risk any "serious" character by choosing some crappy perk or failing a quest.

In this game people will try to screw you one and a thousand times, and you might think you should follow that "dog eat dog" mentality as well, but from personal experience I can tell that it's a wiser choice to behave better and help others. Otherwise people will not trust you, which means they might for example refuse to trade with you, kick you from their gangs, etc.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 05:29:14 am by Eternauta »
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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2013, 05:54:52 pm »

It's a good guide, but being somewhat of a beginner myself i can't really recomend a burster build for starting out- it's too ammo consuming and you WILL spend alot of time in the mines/crafting ammo, which is boring and may turn new players away.

My starting build eventually looked like this (click to enlarge):


Traits: Fast shot, fast metabolism
Perks:
3: Pack Rat
6: Fast reload (This ones optional, can be toughness, more CW or w/e, see below)
9: Even Tougher
12: Living Anatomy
15: Lifegiver
18: Bonus Rate of Fire
21: Lifegiver +
24: Lifegiver ++

It's an economical build that uses the easily craftable combat shotgun and abundant 12 gauge ammo. As i hate TB, its RT based, and fast reload makes the combat more dynamic, as you will be switching between bursts (for KB) and single shots alot.

Totally self sufficient:
 - Can craft all armors and guns (lvl 2 profession), as well as energy profession lvl 2.
 - Can lead 5 slaves. Has 100 unarmed (for awareness), which really is convenient when catching slaves. Slaving is fun and an easy way to earn some money early on. Good for new players.
 - Dismantles stuff on the go- no lame ass "dismantler" alt in your base.

Can do PvE:
 - Has alot of HP,some toughness, and good FA, making him one tough dude. He also progresses quite well in this respect (even tougher at 9, lifegiver at 15)
 - Shotgun based combat is fun as well as effective in pve. Ofcourse you can use any weapon you like. Living Anatomy at 12 really makes a difference in terms of damage output.
 - Leads a slave / merc posse. Playing around with the composition of your army is also quite fun. Aimed-Shot scavengers? Shotgun touting male trappers? 4 Holy people?? You decide! Should allways have 1 female trapper slave though, for the outdoorsman skill she brings.

Cons: Not a very good miner (90 CW). Can't build upgraded tent (50 outdoorsman)

I would also discourage new players from the obsessive-compulsive Alt'ing of some players here. Make one char and stick to him (or her) during your initial exploration of the wastelands. This character is good for that purpose, and will make a great supporter when you eventually do start making alts.


CHARLIE
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 11:13:23 pm by C.H.A.R.L.I.E »
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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2013, 07:18:32 pm »

There's some good advice in the posts above, but there's also a lot of bullshit.

False #1
Don't use these builds. In that game you need to use alts, sorry - I don't like it, too, nobody likes that. Make a pure crafter first (don't need to exp him a lot, really - just so he's able to take professions), build a little economic base. Then make a proper battle character.
False #2
You surely wouldn't be able to do any PvP with these shitty builds above. But you surely can with some proper battle build, not necessary on drugs. They give advantage, but not so big as they say.

I won't post a wall of advice here. If anyone would like some help, please feel free to PM me.
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Eternauta

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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2013, 08:25:19 pm »

Did I ever said the new player would be able to do everything well with the build I posted. If you read everything, you wouldn't post such things:

[...]

Keep in mind that you will do A LOT better in each of these activities if you use alts with specialized builds, but that can wait some time.

[...]

Or you could already start levelling another character with a specialized build, for example a PvE Big Gunner or Laser Rifle fastshooter for better farming, a good slaver character to make more caps, maybe your first PvP character...

[...]

About PvP, you need to understand that most PvP here is done with ridiculously drugged builds and you'll most probably be dead in seconds if you meet a player who is willing to shoot you, unless you are using one of such builds yourself. First focus on PvE, for good PvP you need a solid economic infrastructure. Once you have it, you can start experimenting PvP and/or RP.

C.H.A.R.L.I.E's character and guide is nice as well. I think a new player could choose any of these and do well early in the game. After all, starting builds are just to get some stable ground economically speaking, and then you can start doing what you want.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 08:29:38 pm by Eternauta »
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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 10:04:07 pm »

I understood everything you wrote perfectly. I just think that making that first 'starting' character is just a waste of time, because sooner than later he'll become obsolete. Pure crafter can achieve both 100% Science and Repair at 3rd lvl. Then you're free to start playing with pure fighter.
You also stick to the strict PvE/PvP split, while 2-burst BG will do fine in both, in general if the build handles PvP, it'll handle PvE, too. Talking about 'ridiculously drugged builds' killing in a mere eyeblink is also just scaring those newbies - most common Jet+Buffout+Cola gives just 2 AP more. Is that such a horrible advantage?
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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2013, 10:54:07 pm »

Fun is the operative word in my post. I would hardly recomend for a new player to start leveling up alts to lvl 3 on molerats- that's not the way to get familiar with the game in my opinion.
I understood everything you wrote perfectly. I just think that making that first 'starting' character is just a waste of time, because sooner than later he'll become obsolete.

They will still be crafters of the same caliber as your army of lvl 3 alt. Crafters that can also clear out toxic mines for the advanced workbench, or do some fast slaving for cash.
I just dont think a new player should jump right in to the multi-logging mass-alt madness. It's just not that fun until you discover for yourself that, hey, it would be nice to have an alt for this, and one for that etc.
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Opera

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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 11:00:26 pm »

I understood everything you wrote perfectly. I just think that making that first 'starting' character is just a waste of time, because sooner than later he'll become obsolete. Pure crafter can achieve both 100% Science and Repair at 3rd lvl. Then you're free to start playing with pure fighter.
You also stick to the strict PvE/PvP split, while 2-burst BG will do fine in both, in general if the build handles PvP, it'll handle PvE, too. Talking about 'ridiculously drugged builds' killing in a mere eyeblink is also just scaring those newbies - most common Jet+Buffout+Cola gives just 2 AP more. Is that such a horrible advantage?

You make it sound like the goal of the game is to make a pure fighter build. For me the builds above look like fun to play.
Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2013, 11:43:54 pm »

You make it sound like the goal of the game is to make a pure fighter build. For me the builds above look like fun to play.
Yeah, that's definitely fun to have broken build which barely can fight some raiders, not talking about any other player.

Fun is the operative word in my post. I would hardly recomend for a new player to start leveling up alts to lvl 3 on molerats- that's not the way to get familiar with the game in my opinion.
Who said molerats? 3rd lvl can be easily get through quests or basic crafting.

They will still be crafters of the same caliber as your army of lvl 3 alt.
No, they won't - your hybrid won't have the necessary skills to take support perks, not to say a word about carry weight. And what army are you fucking talking 'bout? Two characters make an army?

I just dont think a new player should jump right in to the multi-logging mass-alt madness. It's just not that fun until you discover for yourself that, hey, it would be nice to have an alt for this, and one for that etc.
The sooner they realise that, the better for them.
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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2013, 12:10:00 am »

Listen man. Try to see this from a new players perspective.
Who said molerats? 3rd lvl can be easily get through quests or basic crafting.
whats he gonna do make shovels for exp? Ammo? 60 guns, as they are about 100 xp each? Where whould he get the materials for this anyway? And where would he get the money for professions? Oh right, lift 150 crates for one rank. You know, a lot of players quit early because they find these mundane tasks boring as shit.
Yeah, that's definitely fun to have broken build which barely can fight some raiders, not talking about any other player.
The builds can easily take on raiders. With slaves i even take on unity patrols. But you are right, they arent pve farming builds for ncr/vc army/hub patrols. They are meant as a way to introduce the player to the game, as they can do basically everything fairly well, and at the same time provide a solid foundation to build upon- you know, gather all the mats so future alts can level up by crafting, provide the cash so future alts can buy profession... ETC!

The sooner they realise that, the better for them.
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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2013, 12:31:53 am »

I'm done with arguing with hardcore forum fighters, whose biggest in-game achievment is some radscorpion hunting.

If anyone would like proper introduction, not some carebear pseudoadvice - I'll be more than happy to answer your PM.
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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2013, 01:09:04 am »

If I were a newb again, I would leave science at 100% and tag barter instead. A good reason for this is if you're not yet confident enough to farm...barter allows you to access better weapons and gear (14mm pistol, laser rifle, metal armor mk2, etc.)
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Eternauta

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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2013, 02:50:11 am »

I just dont think a new player should jump right in to the multi-logging mass-alt madness. It's just not that fun until you discover for yourself that, hey, it would be nice to have an alt for this, and one for that etc.

I think exactly the same as you about this. That's one of the things I was thinking about before typing this guide... This build and guide is not a "follow these advices to win the game" manual, instead it is just something meant to help newbies find their place in this game, have a relatively stable ground to stand on, instead of just wandering around in the worldmap getting killed by random NPCs, just to end up idling in NCR bazaar forever to eventually leave the game in the best case, or become anoter troll.
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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2013, 06:49:48 am »

I think exactly the same as you about this. That's one of the things I was thinking about before typing this guide... This build and guide is not a "follow these advices to win the game" manual, instead it is just something meant to help newbies find their place in this game, have a relatively stable ground to stand on, instead of just wandering around in the worldmap getting killed by random NPCs, just to end up idling in NCR bazaar forever to eventually leave the game in the best case, or become anoter troll.
I'm following this guide as a complete newbie and so far I'm having a lot of fun. Thanks for posting!

One question I do have, though, is what's the difference between builds that are centered around RT combat and TB combat? I hate RT combat, I much prefer TB. I assume this build is still fine?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 06:52:04 am by maxwolfie »
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the underground

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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2013, 07:07:56 am »

Jesus H Christ people if y'all don't like it Don't use it. I don't like it too much but I ain't gonna bash and there was some really good advice there just the same.
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Eternauta

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Re: Starting build & Guide
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2013, 12:31:35 pm »

One question I do have, though, is what's the difference between builds that are centered around RT combat and TB combat? I hate RT combat, I much prefer TB. I assume this build is still fine?

Generally speaking, Turn Based is better for farming (especially NCR Army, Vault City Patrol, Unity Patrol). This build is good for Turn Based (for example uses Fast Shot) but is still inferior compared to Laser Rifle fastshooters or PvE Big Gunner bursters. If you want a superior farmer, go for one of those builds. But this one will do relatively fine against stronger enemies if you use a P90 for bursting and a 14mm Pistol for single shooting. But as always, a specialized build will do much better.

I recommend using this build for low level hunting only (Ghouls, Khans, San Francisco area NPCs...) and then levelling a better build when you want to take one step further in the game and hunt Unity/NCR/VC to loot better gear. It's also recommended to level thief alts to steal from BoS Initiate patrols (5mm and Super Stimpaks) and/or Enclave patrols (MFC's).
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