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[T-888]

Gear requirement to be somewhat effective is just as normal as to eat food and breath air, it will not ruin the build, just make it a higher risk reward aspect playing one, if you want to run around completely naked i don't understand how you can expect to be a threat or be unbeatable in fact in any way, you will be better with a mega power fist or the ordinary version of it any time. Only difference you won't be able to come back to NR 10 times in a row and harass players with it anymore without any drawback or consequence.

Useless trolls, bring nothing to game play, i rather see someone with gear and risking something instead of naked characters who risk nothing and posse threat by harassment and other retarded means like these AC trolls running around and looting in TC just for fun, those are just moron-like features. Some kids who have nothing better to do than annoy players should suck up this heavy handed change and for good.

[falloutdude]

I would not mind having to use mega power fist to get 100 knock down chance. heavy handed is op and making heavy handers use mpf would balance it a little bit. again only people who see this as a flaw are..... trolls!

[jacky.]

It was same when u could kill anyone with sd greese gun

[AdolphbinStalin]

As a troll yes, which was the plan. Get gear and your build works normally.

Not without gear.

Auto knockdown isn't an option, it's a buff.

A good martial artist doesn't need gear to knock you down in HH combat; even if you're armed with a gun, should you let him get within hand-to-hand range. Auto knockdown is the only option/buff for pvp to make such build viable,  and even then you have to get in close range and you're doing small damage- not easy to do vs bursters/big gunners who can kill in 2-3 bursts. HH is also very useful for pve. I think proxy use and multi logging should be fixed first as it is more game breaking than knockdown which one can avoid by moving/not standing still and thus not allowing a HH build to get in close range.

[Crazy]

A good martial artist doesn't need gear to knock you down in HH combat; even if you're armed with a gun, should you let him get within hand-to-hand range.

Realism doesn't have anything to do with the game, it's not a simulation. Or else, surviving an avenger (or even an AK) burst would be impossible, not mentioning avoiding it matrix style with AC. GP>realism

Auto knockdown is the only option/buff for pvp to make such build viable,  and even then you have to get in close range and you're doing small damage- not easy to do vs bursters/big gunners who can kill in 2-3 bursts.

No build should be viable without stuff. Ever. And getting a MPF will still be easier than getting a CA, a CA helmet, and an avenger/laser gatling (and the ammo). Thinking that you could loot all that stuff from people you killed while using none is absolute non sense, a retarded mechanic that encourage trolling and eventually ruin the fun and the main interest of the game (the risk of loosing valuable stuff, in exchange to the the possibility of getting it is a core mechanic of fonline, what makes all it's flavor. When at best you loose only ammo to loot nothing, and at worst loose all your stuff to an unarmed troll, there is a big problem).

which one can avoid by moving/not standing still and thus not allowing a HH build to get in close range.

Yeah, because playing benny hill because of a bluesuit retard is a fantastic game experience...

[Fat Man]

I wanted to discuss knockouts but I see this is turning into another heavy handed debate. I like the days when you would have to punch somebody in eye or head with unarmed to be effective.

I think it depends on what heavy handed build, as big gunner the most annoying is ac + in your face + heavy handed, you can't hit them at range and if you do its only like 20 damage, then if you one hex you miss, I swear in your face doesn't work 1/2 to miss it seems I always miss when I shoot these builds one hex... That is why these builds are annoying. But hell its always wise to just go in with a sneaker see what builds are around if you want to go rambo with your big gunner and you see 3 hth trolls just dont enter the town unless there is a worthy enemy.

But I think this is what they wanted for this session was more use for HtH in PVP that is why we have heavy handed and ac.

I have a build that has heavy handed with 7 str, and actually 7 str isn't too bad you still knock down majority of the time. (this build is a big guner sneaker and I took heavy handed because it useful taking with 100% unarmed for awareness) So I do not see problem it requires a crafted item to do 100% knock down that is fair, even if a power fists counts as 8/10 that is still sufficent. Spend an hour around san francisco you well have so many power fist you won't know what to do with. I do not see this being an issue. Just make a turn base build and hunt around san francisco to level and farm at same time. Every NPC around san francisco gives 300exp + loot.

[Fat Man]

Sorry for double post but it didn't belong in the one above...

Back to knock outs, anybody know if luck factors into getting knocked out? We know lower luck = higher chance to be bypassed but does it also increase higher chance to get knocked out?

[Crazy]

Back to knock outs, anybody know if luck factors into getting knocked out? We know lower luck = higher chance to be bypassed but does it also increase higher chance to get knocked out?

No. The characteristic used for KO rolls is endurance.

[Fat Man]

No. The characteristic used for KO rolls is endurance.

I think that is true with stonewall, but without stonewall 10 endurance doesn't make a difference. Know this from experience.

I think bonehead + man of steel reduces a knock out shot to a knock down.

Reason why I started this topic was thinking if taking quick recovery is more useful than taking stonewall or man of steel. Was thinking it would be more useful perk to take at level 6 than baby toughness for a big gunner build.

At level 9 I think even tougher is more useful than stonewall, and level 6 quick recovery would be better option than toughness. Level 15 for man of steel which wouldn't be a good perk to replace a life giver or a brd on a bg burster.

But at same time knock outs still take away alot of AP, 1/3 of that ap you are still on the ground for a good length of time where it still seems like a useless perk.

[Mayck]

Back to knock outs, anybody know if luck factors into getting knocked out? We know lower luck = higher chance to be bypassed but does it also increase higher chance to get knocked out?

Higher luck does not lower knockout chance.

I think that is true with stonewall, but without stonewall 10 endurance doesn't make a difference. Know this from experience.

It makes a difference even without stonewall.

I think bonehead + man of steel reduces a knock out shot to a knock down.

Bonehad + man of steel usually decrease the severity of the critical so it basically decreases chance to get knocked out.

[Roachor]

doesn't low luck increase the chance/severity of crits against you? that would increase knock outs.

[Crazy]

I think that is true with stonewall, but without stonewall 10 endurance doesn't make a difference. Know this from experience.

Look, if you don't know what you're talking about and don't believe us when we answer your questions, why do you even ask?

Luck of the person receiving crit affect only bypass and blind chance. EN affect KD and KO rolls (and cripple too in Fallout, but maybe they changed that to strength in 2238).

[T-888]

Crazy is correct.

Just noticed, 10 endurance and stonewall otherwise no difference? What bullshit.

Stonewall   6   ST 6   En Roll to ignore knockout, En-5 roll to ignore knockdown

Last, previous information about Stonewall, it adds another roll, so if your endurance roll fails it gives another chance to avoid it, higher endurance is of course much more effective in conjunction with Stonewall in a sense that your second roll has a higher chance to avoid the effect, but for example a character with 8 endurance will still benefit from it quite a bit and actually maybe even equal with 10 endurance, because Stonewall is only used when you actually fail with your normal endurance roll ( with 10 endurance you will fail the least to use stonewall at all ), so by all means if you fail more times with 8 endurance your second roll will be used more often despite it being less effective, it should be about even when it comes to KO/KD, if not equal then the difference is not very big.

[Fat Man]

Ok so I went and tested this and this is my conclusion, luck factors into knock outs because of bypasses, even with 10 endurance stonewall or 10 endurance without it, having lower luck = increase chance of bypass and a sniper with better critical well do a knock out with a bypass so luck does factor into knockouts but that is in regard to bypasses.

Which is the reason why I thought that 10 endurance didn't do much vs knock outs because luck factors into the bypass, my build has low luck so it gets bypassed knocked out on frequently even with 10 endurance.

I tested a build lower luck 10 endurance and a build with higher luck 10 endurance, the average critical didn't cause a knockout or a knockdown on both was the same, but the build with more luck didn't get bypassed knocked out, and the build with less luck got bypassed knocked more frequently. This was tested with a sniper with full critical chance vs combat helmet and bonehead on both of these builds.

[Senocular]

It's amusing to watch T-888 support suicide bomb TC trolling in one thread and being against AC trolling here. Keep it up man.