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[FrankenStone]

Hi everybody i was just wondering if the sewers got some more underground lvls than just one , i heard heard from some dude that it got 6 lvls or so but for now i was searching with no luck to find any stairs that are going down .

it would be great to know if this is true ... thx .

[avv]

Don't believe everything you hear.

[OdijSuppi]

Yeah, there is only one level. It was cheap witticism from Nexxos on IRC, short after the Update.

[MalcomGraves]

Yeah, i was wandering that myself why there are no other levels, i heard myself it has 6

[Horatio]

Yeah, i was wandering that myself why there are no other levels, i heard myself it has 6

Because mapping the one level already was a work enough? I guess if someone will go and try to add more levels, he should fill them with Deathclaws and less narrow passages for more hardcore HtH. If one stands on a bridge, he maximally takes hits from two rats at a time - a great HtH and FA leveling potential, but at the same time a easy target for a PK, because blocked by rats, especially near entrances.

[avv]

Those rats are pain in the ass when pvp players want to pass through the sewers. The rats shouldn't engage anyone unless they are attacked first and even then only the one that was hit should aggro.

[Horatio]

Those rats are pain in the ass when pvp players want to pass through the sewers. The rats shouldn't engage anyone unless they are attacked first and even then only the one that was hit should aggro.

But then you could pop them one after another from range, if your were after them.

[avv]

But then you could pop them one after another from range, if your were after them.

It amazes me that you consider this as a problem. Dude there's a chance to meet armed-to-teeth pvp apes in the sewers and you're worried about players getting free xp from rats? Hunting molerats or centaurs is faster way to get xp anyway.

[Horatio]

It amazes me that you consider this as a problem. Dude there's a chance to meet armed-to-teeth pvp apes in the sewers and you're worried about players getting free xp from rats? Hunting molerats or centaurs is faster way to get xp anyway.

It's not about XP but it's kinda stupid when you enter a cave full of beasts and expect them to say "hello" or "meh, another wastelander" so you can shoot them, instead of going straight for your flesh and blood, like every decent beast (or armed-to-teeth PvP ape) would do.

[avv]

It's not about XP but it's kinda stupid when you enter a cave full of beasts and expect them to say "hello" or "meh, another wastelander" so you can shoot them, instead of going straight for your flesh and blood, like every decent beast (or armed-to-teeth PvP ape) would do.

Stupid to who? A random guy who enters the sewers once and then never comes back? It's not stupid for the guys who play there all day long, they don't give a rat's ass about the rats or how they behave as long as they aren't bothered. When it comes to designing good features, immersion has to step aside.

I doubt it would ruin a nuub's day if the whole sewer didn't aggro on him when he punched one of the rats.

[Horatio]

Stupid to who? A random guy who enters the sewers once and then never comes back? It's not stupid for the guys who play there all day long, they don't give a rat's ass about the rats or how they behave as long as they aren't bothered. When it comes to designing good features, immersion has to step aside.

I doubt it would ruin a nuub's day if the whole sewer didn't aggro on him when he punched one of the rats.

Stupid to a guy who don't want to be bothered by beasts in a beast cave. You enter a rat cave for whatever purpose, expect to deal with rats. And immersion is a feature in this game, so why should it step aside?

[avv]

Stupid to a guy who don't want to be bothered by beasts in a beast cave. You enter a rat cave for whatever purpose, expect to deal with rats. And immersion is a feature in this game, so why should it step aside?

Because immersion is gone once you've experienced it few times. After that only thing that matters are the smoothness of game mechanics.
If you refuse to discuss mechanics, I can also present few points about immersion: shouldn't the rats be afraid of loud noises of gunfire and humans in general? How do they multiply so fast even though they are being slaughtered in their thousands? What do they eat? They only stand still, they should die in hunger. If immersion bothers you, why aren't you already complaining about these subjects? Somehow you're only sticking to the hostility of the rats.

[Horatio]

If you refuse to discuss mechanics.

Haven't say that. Tell me what you think about it.

I can also present few points about immersion: shouldn't the rats be afraid of loud noises of gunfire and humans in general? How do they multiply so fast even though they are being slaughtered in their thousands? What do they eat? They only stand still, they should die in hunger.

That's quite interesting point, btw, avv.
The rats are clever animals and FEV maybe made them even more cleverer. For them gunfire means food. Killed rats lure the living ones from lower levels and they eat the corpses. Well, they also eat ocassional visitors, if not each other. They also have manti to hunt and eat. As for not patrolling sewers, they have no scripts, or maybe they are territorial.

If immersion bothers you, why aren't you already complaining about these subjects? Somehow you're only sticking to the hostility of the rats.

It doesn't bother me. I'm not even complaining. Are you complaining about rats being hostile?

Because immersion is gone once you've experienced it few times. After that only thing that matters are the smoothness of game mechanics.

Maybe you're right about this, still, you can't say to the game "i have experienced you and for now, leave me alone."
It's about general strategic dealing with the caves, either they suck or they are awesome.

[avv]

Haven't say that. Tell me what you think about it.

I told you there's bloodthirsty apes in the sewers to balance out the situation if rats weren't hostile but you just bypassed that argument. For me it's weird that someone can think of non-hostile rats being a problem in an area where you can get randomly killed by another player with powerbuild designed for combat.

Plus the rats are no worth to lvl24 chars who wish to use the sewers as strategic advantage in competition situation against other players.

In addition pve and pvp areas should never be combined because fighting players and npcs at the same time is really messy, which was proved by the militia issue and generally when it comes to pks jumping in your farming encounter.

The rats are clever animals and FEV maybe made them even more cleverer. For them gunfire means food. Killed rats lure the living ones from lower levels and they eat the corpses. Well, they also eat ocassional visitors, if not each other. They also have manti to hunt and eat. As for not patrolling sewers, they have no scripts, or maybe they are territorial.It doesn't bother me. I'm not even complaining. Are you complaining about rats being hostile?

See what talking about immersion does: nothing. We could talk endlessly about the fallout lore and get carried away from the actual subject and what's happening ingame.
Players who are dealing with features in daily basis only care that they work fluently and enjoyable way. Immersion is just a top layer to make things look at least credible. Players who try things only few times may find immersion really important, whereas experienced players just bypass it and concentrate on their goals. Who should the features support most: those who are involved with them daily, or those who check them once or rarely?
So if the rats don't bother you, why are you telling they should remain the way they are? If you would have no problem them not being hostile by default, what's the issue?

[Horatio]

So you just complain about rats hindering you to do PvP or what?