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Total Members Voted: 81

[avv]

Thankyou for making this thread, Triptroll.

There's no certainty what crit tables look like so making accurate suggestions is hard.

Max damage bonus to 1,5 sounds reasonable but nobody can tell what effect it will have in the end.

Best choice in my opinion would be to remove crits from bg and gatling laser burst entirely and leave them only for rocket launcher. Burst is something that does constant reliable damage, not random spike damage.

[jacky.]

Nerf gatlings to lvl where they are with out better crit perk. 150-250.

[T-888]

yes im serious, and they are not instant kills. Many big gunners have more like 250 HP and critical bursts deal like 180-330 dmg. (average 260) max i had was 330. I have 3x brd and mrd perks, and im talking about ~30 hex range.

First of all things range has nothing to do with the damage output, unless your 1 hex from the target.

The avarage damage is way too high(from experience, including characters that have toughness, man of steel and good armor, the damage exceeds maximum health for most characters out there, even the highest health possible), that results in insta-kills most of the time, because the whole game doesn't revolve around characters that have 3xlifegivers and it shouldn't, it's stupid and certainly not fun to play. Even those 286HP characters, witch have toughness survive those critical hits often as not, maybe you get lucky or maybe you don't. Many players dislike this randomness factor involved as well, actually the damage goes much higher than 330, there was this video on http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,23103.msg206245.html#new , i saw a guy get critted for 370+ and he was a big gunner.

I myself have a character with 3x lifegivers, CA + 2xtoughness and psycho, i get killed by one shot for 322. Nice, see what i'm talking about, it's just NOT balanced.

Don't waste your time trying to convince me about something that is entirely false.

Thankyou for making this thread, Triptroll.

This is not the place to troll me, otherwise i will verbally destroy report you.

Best choice in my opinion would be to remove crits from bg and gatling laser burst entirely and leave them only for rocket launcher. Burst is something that does constant reliable damage, not random spike damage.

Striping game mechanics from weapons is the worst thing you can do.

Max damage bonus to 1,5 sounds reasonable but nobody can tell what effect it will have in the end.

It's simple what happens if that is applied to all burst weapons, gatling/avenger get's reasonable, everything else useless. 2.5x damage multiplier sounds much, but remember that the damage has to go through all kind of resistances, DR, DT, Critical power modifier( includes perks, armors bonus ), so it is really hard to tell. That's way too simple logic to just put 1.5x damage multiplier because hmmm, avenger does 120 dmg, so with the multiplier will be like 180 at maximum, sadly it won't work like that.( the reason for that is i think the damage is first multiplied, applied, then it goes through all the resistances) A developer just has to look at current tables and evaluate approximate decrease by himself, your right they see the critical tables, we don't.

[mojuk]

I'm not going to elaborate how useless snipers are even with this perk 

Wait, something doesn't add up. It wasn't supposed to be a nerf for the snipers, test fineese if it still decrease DR by 30% on crtical hits. Might be something they forgot to put in changelog. Remember how Solar was planning to change fineese to ignore the 30% DR penalty on critical hits ...

As far as I remember before update it was not possible to do weapon drop almost every crit shoot with 35cc. I did 50 bb gun shoots to: 1, 5 and 10 str, mostly 10 luck and MoS chars. 38 were critical hits, 31 weapon drops and about 1/3 of it arm cripple. So it seams something went wrong with those crit tables too

But back to the topic. Yes, crit bursters are too powerful, not frequency but dmg, especialy against so called tanks (10 luck, MoS, 2-3x LG, 30 dr), but now against bluesuit with normal minigun or lsw/m60 and good luck roll they are not so tanky anymore

[racoon]

Better crit and 2xbrd and u will see difference. I dealed 200-350 from lsw on max range with no brd but with better crit.
On minotaur event i killed with insta kill 8k hp robot, i used lsw. Same gatling Carits are insane

liar. you can instant kill that high HP target with sg/ew by eyeshot but not with big gun. instant killing with bg's means the damage is bigger than your hp, and with small guns it means your hp drops to 0 no matter how high it was. so dude no bullshit please.

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

liar. you can instant kill that high HP target with sg/ew by eyeshot but not with big gun. instant killing with bg's means the damage is bigger than your hp, and with small guns it means your hp drops to 0 no matter how high it was. so dude no bullshit please.

One Hex critical? someone one  hexed me with avenger and did 1042 damage

[Jotisz]

Just a hatch but personally I think the massive amount of instant kills wouldn't appear without spray and spray perk and better criticals. Changing those two like making better criticals available only for sg and ew, and making spray and spray half armor crit modifiers instead of bypassing them could lower the one shot one kills.

[T-888]

Without spray and pray, the critical builds would be hardly viable, though someone playing would still make insta-kills, only not so much. Spray and pray removes only crit modifier, not crit power modifier. With low frequency of critical chance, critical builds are not really good, too random, too much to sacrifice for it.

Remove BC and SnP, say goodbye to any critical bursters.

[avv]

Here's some suggestions:

- Make luck1 not affect bypass chance. That way luck1 builds will step in to challenge the critbursters that had to invest points in luck.
- Remove the crazy multiplier damages, like 2,5x, 3x and 4x.
- Since luck no longer protects from bypasses, you can add bypass criticals with 1,2, 1,3 and 1,5 multipliers. With armor piercing ammo it doesn't do incredible damage, but jhp ammo would have a purpose. At the moment bypasses are rare because most trooper builds are critbursters that have luck.
- Make psycho, adrenaline rush and toughness perks affect all damage, not just normal. Make it so that the damage resistance gained from those perks can't be bypassed with crits that would normally bypass all resistances.
- Make armors provide guaranteed bypass protection until the deterioration is less than like 80. That way nobody can receive a deadly bypass crit right in the beginning, unless he's wearing a crap armor or no armor at all. 

So basically unless you come in a fight without any armor or crap one, you won't get insta'd unless you have little hp or the battle has went on for a while, deteriorating your armor. And even then it's not necessarily a killer-crit.

[mojuk]

- Make luck1 not affect bypass chance. That way luck1 builds will step in to challenge the critbursters that had to invest points in luck.

I don't like it. You made 1 luck char and could use all those points to buff other SPECIAL. You made 1 luck char, you pay the price, maybe it could be a lowered a little, now it should be like that:

Sounds like you have really low luck



Dumping luck will hurt against crit bursters

- Make armors provide guaranteed bypass protection until the deterioration is less than like 80. That way nobody can receive a deadly bypass crit right in the beginning, unless he's wearing a crap armor or no armor at all. 

So basically unless you come in a fight without any armor or crap one, you won't get insta'd unless you have little hp or the battle has went on for a while, deteriorating your armor. And even then it's not necessarily a killer-crit.

I like this one the most. It was even suggested by Solar once with more than 50% armor det. to provide baypass protection. But 50 seams too low, 80 sounds better. And I don't think insta killing people with broken armors or no armors at all is a bad thing. The problem is when you go with max. protection you can get in game and still die from 1 crit fart.

[Spotty]

Here's some suggestions: 

- Make psycho, adrenaline rush and toughness perks affect all damage, not just normal. Make it so that the damage resistance gained from those perks can't be bypassed with crits that would normally bypass all resistances.
- Make armors provide guaranteed bypass protection until the deterioration is less than like 80. That way nobody can receive a deadly bypass crit right in the beginning, unless he's wearing a crap armor or no armor at all. 

Those 2 I belive could balance things out a bit. Guaranteed protection from armors, perks and drugs make tanks more viable.

As for making luck a dumpstat I dont quite agree with. Might cause some funny nerfing of snipers.

[avv]

It's just if the multipliers aren't touched, crits are still gonna instakill. 3-4x crits are instakill even without bypass.

[Nice_Boat]

Change torso multipliers to 2x, problem solved. 200-250 hp damage for critbursts would still be fine, 150-200 would be a really heavy nerf, more than 250 is generally 1HKO.

[Kelin]

I don't like it. You made 1 luck char and could use all those points to buff other SPECIAL. You made 1 luck char, you pay the price...

So you think LK 1 builds deserve to die in one burst?

[T-888]

Choices and consequences. Can't argue about that, kelin.

Change torso multipliers to 2x, problem solved. 200-250 hp damage for critbursts would still be fine, 150-200 would be a really heavy nerf, more than 250 is generally 1HKO.

200-250 the common health bar for characters out there. With the frequency of critical hits 150-200 would be just perfect.