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[avv]

Maliceson and eternauta, I've had similar experiences with nuubs: help them too much and they just keep asking more.

What I've noticed is that nuubs get depressed when I tell them what this game is about: want something? Get an alt.
For example a nuub asks what's the best way to get some pvp gear so he can join me and my pallies in pvp operations. At this point I ask what does he have. The nuub answers: a lvl 10 pvp character and a tent. At that point I sigh deep and tell him to do some of the following:
- Level bos or enclave thief to get some superstims and ammo to sell in shops
- Level a barter char to sell that ammo and superstims
- Level a crafter who can craft helmets and basically everything
- Level your pvp char
- At some point, get a personal base
Those are the min. reqs I'd say. And it's already 4 alts. That dude is going to spend his first weeks levelling and farming.

I'd say fonline pvp is like a real world army. You get these gung-ho rambos who are shaking to do some pew pew but they get upset because before that they have to clean toilets and peel potatoes for the first 3 weeks. In fonline you have to farm and level alts.

[DeputyDope]

In fonline you have to farm and level alts.

a.k.a. do some really boring shit.

[Perteks]

a.k.a. do some really boring shit.

a.k.a. if u dont like gtfo

[Jotisz]

- Level bos or enclave thief to get some superstims and ammo to sell in shops
- Level a barter char to sell that ammo and superstims
- Level a crafter who can craft helmets and basically everything
- Level your pvp char
- At some point, get a personal base

This only applies to one purpose PvP ape characters...
I would say its possible to have characters that can support themselves its just that majority of players sees only one aspect of Fonline. And refuse to play it other way.
Sure PvP is fun but making one purpose support chars + a few combat chars to be able to use fast relog efficiently is a bore. Thats why I don't have characters like that.
I'm happy that my characters are able to stand on their own and they don't need help from my other characters to get themselves gear though occasionally I cheat a bit and help them...
About the base well I would say that that point is a real valid one, having access to a base is quite useful:)

[Roachor]

a.k.a. if u dont like gtfo

that's what 2/3 of the player base did

[Telock]

This game is not hard.

-Make Character
-Die a few times
-Read fonline2238 Wiki
-Browse forums
-load FEF on Nitue.net
-Create A new character with your new found knowledge
-Fun

[avv]

This only applies to one purpose PvP ape characters...

Man look, when a player joins a faction that does pvp (it's pretty much the only thing they do together) he wants to do what the others are doing. If all your new friends do something, you probably want to participate too. But to participate, you need those tools to level up and maintain your pvp character.

A guy who just wants to join his pals on pvp operations doesn't care about anything else than getting what it takes to join his team and have some fun in unsafe towns. So he wants the gear and chars fast. The way I explained to get stuff is the fastest way I can think of. If this guy started softly and levelled weird hybrid chars to get stuff and advance in the game, it would take him a month to get started and join what his pals are doing. Levelling alts is simply the best way to do stuff. And when you want to reach a goal, you use the best method.

Easy way would be that the older players hand out a char and all the gear for free. But that's not how it goes because the nuub wouldn't learn anything and would be asking for more right after. Best players are self-suffiecient and it's always fun to play with guys who aren't asking for favours but can handle themselves. Best friends are those who don't need economical support from each other.

[DeputyDope]

a.k.a. if u dont like gtfo

a.k.a. perteks saying the same shit over and over again, like a robot.

[Jotisz]

A guy who just wants to join his pals on pvp operations doesn't care about anything else than getting what it takes to join his team and have some fun in unsafe towns. So he wants the gear and chars fast. The way I explained to get stuff is the fastest way I can think of. If this guy started softly and levelled weird hybrid chars to get stuff and advance in the game, it would take him a month to get started and join what his pals are doing. Levelling alts is simply the best way to do stuff. And when you want to reach a goal, you use the best method.

Not to argue cause you do have a point though I think my viewpoint is ok too I find the leveling of one purpose chars boring while I have quite a fun with the leveling of hybrid chars thats why my choice goes that way. And I think they would provide more fun to a starter player. After all its possible to make hybrid chars that are able to fight in PvP too and its not always necessary to use the best gear its possible to have fun with easier to obtain items and its quite easy to make characters with enough skills to use almost all type of weapons.

[Marko]

avv! It's like you're saying exactly what i am thinking. So i agree with you 100%.

When i started this game last year, a few of us bought some bases and started recruiting. We'd add new players/members to the bases and poured out our time to help them get going. It was too much. They got access to resources they never had to fund, and they got hours and hours of help from us when we needed that time ourselves. Later nearly every single guy quit due to the natural attrition process.

This year i think of it backwards: meet people and get them working on self-sufficiency first (ie a private base and a crafter etc). Then once we see who is left after the labor of it all has boiled the group down to only those willing to work this hard, ah then we can get a faction base together because by then we have only those members who work for it, are willing to stick to it, and earn their way.

I love helping people - it's one of the most rewarding things we can do in this game and in RL. But if you help someone too much, you rob them of their chance to earn it themselves, and when they quit, where did your time go?

[Malice Song]

I would say its possible to have characters that can support themselves its just that majority of players sees only one aspect of Fonline. And refuse to play it other way.

Levelling alts is simply the best way to do stuff. And when you want to reach a goal, you use the best method.

I think this is a bit of a moot point that shouldn't be ignored completely, but is not entirely a wrong/right decision in terms of noob friendliness.

For example, it's entirely possible to roll a selfsustained char, and at least in my case, after a bit of experimentation and toying around with the planner, it turned out that a hybrid build was superior to a specialized one and I would assume, factoring in ease of use and reaction time, even several specialized alts. That said, I won't claim this is a good idea for PvP. It's actually not even a topic that comes up often for me, but when it does I'll admit that's out of my league. Basically it actually comes down to the goals of the new player.

That's not groundbreaking stuff and barely warrants a post, but there's a bit of hybrid-vs-alt debate smell in the air and I think there's no need to really go into that, so it may be beneficial to just establish outright that there are newcommers who potentially fall on both sides of the fence.

What I've noticed is that nuubs get depressed when I tell them what this game is about: want something? Get an alt.

This, however, isn't really surprising imo. Blame it on expectations set by Fallout 2. Alts don't even exist in that game, the transition from that to fonline, where a lot of vets tell you that you need a bunch of alts (and depending on what the goal is, they are probably even right), is probably a bit of a shock for some players. It certainly goes against the expectations that players have, who are looking forward to Fallout online in the purest sense.

[hungaryman]

Speaking of "User Friendly", is the server offline at the moment? Thank you for your time.

[Enzotainment]

Speaking of "User Friendly", is the server offline at the moment? Thank you for your time.

Yes it is.
This is a useful site to check: http://fonline-status.narod.ru/en

[avv]

Not to argue cause you do have a point though I think my viewpoint is ok too I find the leveling of one purpose chars boring while I have quite a fun with the leveling of hybrid chars thats why my choice goes that way.

You can have that viewpoint, I started the game like that. No hurry anywhere, just learn stuff at your own speed.
But if you strip all preferences and feelings players have, this game boils down to items and characters. Items and characters make us able to do stuff. Without either, we got nothing. The one who has both fastest, gets to do more and does it better. You can't balance a game by observing player's viewpoints. There has to be at least 2 things: something everyone wants and something everyone doesn't want, victory and loss. In our case it's gaining and losing items since character's death doesn't mean anything.

And I think they would provide more fun to a starter player. After all its possible to make hybrid chars that are able to fight in PvP too and its not always necessary to use the best gear its possible to have fun with easier to obtain items and its quite easy to make characters with enough skills to use almost all type of weapons.

For example, it's entirely possible to roll a selfsustained char, and at least in my case, after a bit of experimentation and toying around with the planner, it turned out that a hybrid build was superior to a specialized one and I would assume, factoring in ease of use and reaction time, even several specialized alts. That said, I won't claim this is a good idea for PvP. It's actually not even a topic that comes up often for me, but when it does I'll admit that's out of my league. Basically it actually comes down to the goals of the new player.

But it's not smart. It's not reasonable in terms of mechanics. Making a hybrid character is like using an underpowered gun in fps game or doing intentionally stupid strategies in rts. When you get a royal flush in poker, do you keep it or scramble it for the sake of it?
My point here is that the mechanics and fun don't go hand to hand. Fun is slow and ineffective, and not even fun for all (apes, powergamers). Effective is boring and repetitive. When the most effective and fun meet, you have a good feature.

There's no point discussion hybrid vs alts. I got few examples right here:
- max effective sneak is 300, not much room for anything else
- you want to know if there's a restock in sf tanker. You're in VC. Which one is faster: log to a shop checker who is inside the tanker or travel to sf?
- you want to know if there's something in reno. Do you travel there or log to your townchecker?
Alts allow you to travel lightning fast.

[hungaryman]

Thank you so much, Enzo