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Author Topic: Silent Death.  (Read 2705 times)

Silent Death.
« on: April 05, 2012, 04:34:51 pm »

Sneakers in FOnline used to be scouts mostly, while ambushers/campers still can be used in combat, simply it doesn't work properly now.
First SD should be possible with almost any weapon, but have different effects on it + max range of SD possible. SneakSkill%/15 hexes range must be max, where SD can be triggered, in other words 20 hexes with 300% sneak. And of course remove that silly auto-crit.
As for weapons:
2H ranged bursting - x1.0 dmg mult (no bonus). If you're in sneak mode or target can't see you: +10 to crit roll in case of critical.
2H ranged single (except for bazooka and flamer) - x2.0 dmg mult. If you're in sneak mode or target can't see you: +10 to crit roll in case of critical.
1H ranged bursting - x1.5 dmg mult. If you're in sneak mode or target can't see you: +20 to crit roll in case of critical.
1H ranged single (except for grenades) - x3.0 dmg mult. If you're in sneak mode or target can't see you: +20 to crit roll in case of critical.
Any unarmed/melee weapon - x6.0 dmg mult. If you're in sneak mode: +30 to crit roll in case of critical and instakill roll*
*If you're holding one of: power fist, mega power fist, cattle prod, super cattle prod, ripper or supersledge, then you're doing your ST roll against target's EN roll for instakill. Example: you have 10 ST, target has 6 EN, you're rolling random number between 1 and 10, and enemy between 1 and 6, if your roll is higher than target's, then target is instakilled. Would be nice, if instakill will work like death from poison/SS effect, setting HP to 0 and actually killing target without gore animation and armor breaking, not just KOing.

Silent death will trigger:
1) From any direction, if target can't see you, even if you're not in sneak.
2) From behind and back-sides, always, even if you're seen and you don't need to be in sneak.
3) From any direction, if target is blinded and you don't need to be in sneak.
4) From any direction, if target has less than 0 APs or lying on ground and you don't need to be in sneak.

Anti silent death/sneaking:
Your carry weight % capacity proportionally decreases your sneak skill, example: 0/45 weight - no penalty; 15/45 weight - your sneak is decreased on 1/3; 45/45 weight or more - your sneak equals to 0% or even negative if you're overweighted.

Bluesuit equals to CA/BA in terms of penalty to sneak skill.

Less penalty to sneak or negate penalty to sneak for 2H SG weapons.

Cautious Nature perk gives immunity to Silent Death perk, or PE roll (10 PE - immunity) that SD won't trigger on you. Also that +PE bonus for encounters can affect anti-sneaking FoV. Requirements can contain some sneak skill as requirements in additional to Outdoorsman, like 50%.



Bonuses from walls and obstacles should affect you even if you have base 300% sneak, in other words bonus should go over 300%, to make sneaking near walls/behind obstacles always better. With carry weight penalty sneak won't be so static (always max) like now, Ghost perk could be really useful regardless of your sneak skill.

Build: this way SD sneaker one-on-one isn't good, he'll only good against running away targets or one-time assault from sneak, while in team, he can be mobile in combat and run from side/back side direction to deal additional damage to enemies, while these enemies fighting with his friends, also SDers can assist-kill KOed and blinded targets. Also he doesn't need to run away and resneak after each attack to use his build effectively, as he will be able to do sneak attacks even being seen, just under right conditions, also sneak attacks won't be so overpowered as now in term of effect + more diversity in SD builds: you can even make unaimed fast shot SDer, burster SDer, sniper SDer, adequate unarmed/melee SDer.
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DocAN.

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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 04:43:46 pm »

Bad idea,

SD should work with unarmed/melee only. Its Ninja style not RAMBO minigun with nade in other hand.
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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 04:52:29 pm »

SD should work with unarmed/melee only. Its Ninja style
It won't work in FOnline world. If only you mean bluesuit kamikaze-troll-ninjas, who 100% sure that he'll die.
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Sarakin

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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2012, 06:13:53 pm »

6x multiplier on melee ? 3x on pistols ? Are you nuts ? One lucky crit from these kinds of weapons and youre gone...

You pretty much overcomplicated it, having some % crit chance bonus or slight increase in dmg output would be generally enough,


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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2012, 06:42:09 pm »

Why not double damage sneak attack laser gatling crits while we are at it?
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Senocular

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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 01:28:40 am »

Bad idea,

SD should work with unarmed/melee only. Its Ninja style not RAMBO minigun with nade in other hand.

This. Unarmed is already overpowered now so stop bitching how no one will sneak behind enemies.
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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 03:22:04 am »

melee sd is virtually, theoretically, technically and practically impossible.

Sneakers were perfectly balanced last season. period. There was no way to make sneaking "better".


Uftak

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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2012, 09:30:48 am »

melee sd is virtually, theoretically, technically and practically impossible.
My best "backstab" hit was for 214....I was usin' a combat knife.

Anyway Rat's conception of SD would destroy this, already broken game.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 09:32:53 am by Uftak »
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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2012, 10:56:17 am »

My best "backstab" hit was for 214....I was usin' a combat knife.
That was a lucky instakill, does damage equal to the enemy's hp, you can score that with a pistol :F
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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2012, 12:39:42 pm »

6x multiplier on melee ? 3x on pistols ? Are you nuts ? One lucky crit from these kinds of weapons and youre gone...

You pretty much overcomplicated it, having some % crit chance bonus or slight increase in dmg output would be generally enough,
If you have low sneak skill, then you need to shoot at super-puper low range, because of max SD range formula, if you have adequate sneak skill, then you have skilled trait, because you also need adequate combat skill to hit things, also you'll have 10 IN, if you have skilled trait, high combat skill and 10 IN and all these sneak perks, means you simply can't have the same crit chance and crit power as regular sniper, even if you'll have 10 LK and some critical perks (with some wonder you found spare perk slots) it means you'll 100% have uber low AG ST PE and/or EN, having low range build with HP on one non-critical burst, hell yeah! Super-puper OP build, oh and...
Cautious Nature perk gives immunity to Silent Death perk, or PE roll (10 PE - immunity) that SD won't trigger on you. Also that +PE bonus for encounters can affect anti-sneaking FoV. Requirements can contain some sneak skill as requirements in additional to Outdoorsman, like 50%.
Then some moron tags and raises outdoorsman skill and picks that perk, and your build totally useless utter shit, because you start to play for 1 EN tank in jacket vs him.

As for melee/hth, if you have good melee/hth weapon, see some sniper camping near building that you can hit him from back and then fast run behind corner so his friends won't make you dead, ST vs EN instakill roll specially made for snipers, so that SD hth can assassinate him and after that try to escape, because as said instakill possible only with high tier hth/melee weapons.

As for miniguns and grenades... SD won't work with grenades at all, and for 2H, it only gives +10 to crit power roll, and for this you need to waste a lot sneak skill, and also do these criticals under sneak attack conditions, so basically it's useless for SD. SD can be used with pancor and other shotguns, single shot will be more powerful with SD, and if you can't do sneak attack, then you can burst. Doing SD with sniper rifle and stupid, because you'll be on low range, there's no reason to use that weapon there, so current pure sniper won't take SD. 14mm/223/plasma pistol AR/plasma rifle fast shot builds can be used with SD by spamming x2.0 or x3 more damage in torso from behind and then running away. I don't think they will be so overpowered, no one ever will post "oh noes! nerf 14mm pistoloro build! he kills everyone by shooting torso!" because that guy after doing 1st shot from sneak, will become visible, and if continue shooting, then some ..any build (BG or sniper) can just kill him in a second.
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Uftak

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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2012, 12:47:12 pm »

That was a lucky instakill, does damage equal to the enemy's hp, you can score that with a pistol :F
I guess so  ;p
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pistacja

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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2012, 07:31:14 pm »

Quote
4) From any direction, if target has less than 0 APs or lying on ground and you don't need to be in sneak.

I'm wandering ... can the knockdown from Heavy Handed gen your AP into the negative and give a 'sneak attack'? If yes, then that would be the ultimate overpowered ground&pound.


Quote
2) From behind and back-sides, always, even if you're seen and you don't need to be in sneak.
I don't like this one. In turn base that's so easy to do and for hth/melee that's 1-2ap for an instant kill.
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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2012, 08:09:11 pm »

I'm wandering ... can the knockdown from Heavy Handed gen your AP into the negative and give a 'sneak attack'? If yes, then that would be the ultimate overpowered ground&pound.
When HH will be fixed it won't be a problem I think, if it'll then of course this condition can be removed from sneak attacking.

I don't like this one. In turn base that's so easy to do and for hth/melee that's 1-2ap for an instant kill.
1) Instakill roll, the same as +crit roll for any weapon works only from sneak mode (means you can do it only once, then you need to run away and resneak as for TB: you can't resneak in TB). If you're seen, then no +crit and no instakill as said in 1st post, only dmg mult and only in needed conditions.
2) For TB conditions can be changed, like: facing checks performing at begin of turn. If someone is looking to your direction or even forward-side, then you won't be able to sneak attack them this turn, if at begin of turn someone looking on you with his back - then you can do sneak attacks to this person this turn.
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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2012, 12:43:11 am »

Sneak attack is only useful for throwers, pistols don't do enough damage and it's a waste of a perk on a hth char.
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Tomowolf

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Re: Silent Death.
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2012, 10:27:14 am »

I didn't want to dig whole topic agin, but why won't we do two separate perks, one called Hitman (for sg/ew/throwing w/o nades), which would need sneak, and perk assassin, which would give crit for hth/melee when he's at enemys back.
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