Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Havoc87]

Hello again dear wastelanders.

Since there was a wipe, and we need to comment new rules, i want to talk about one of the most important aspects of mmo game: Economy.

As all of us can clearly see - it simply sucks. First of all - Barter skill. It only force us to make otherwise useless barter alts. In my opinion, it should be removed from Fonline. Second of all - deflation. Lack of currency is damaging for the economy. Is there any way to simulate free market? Let's say, spawning npc with guns based on stock of vendors? Say, once 5 dudes with mausers are spawned, 5 (or more) masuers dissapear  from vendor's stock? Some random "selling" stuff to nps for caps to increase it's ammount in the economy and decrase ammount of stuff in market?

Do You have some interesting thoughts on economy?

[ErnestGaskin]

Barter is just a skill. You would have to remove all the skills if youd like to avoid alts. It has level cap and you cant be UBER in everything. Deal with it or alt with it.

There is only one way to ensure caps at traders. Decrease items value by numbers already in stock. Allows moneys to flow, gives us variability in traders selection and all that stuff. Everybody wins. Suggested few ice ages ago.

[Vindict]

besides barter skill is not the most important determinant of prices, as far as I know it's reputation. and I don't think that sucks.

[Havoc87]

Imho the main problem of this economy is the fact that npc do not participate in it. Sure that no player won't buy a shotgun or mauser. But poor old dude will buy it.

And how about more vendors? Or good old auction house?

[ErnestGaskin]

Auction house was removed with the leech king in one of the first open testing updates.

[Havoc87]

So what? Is the economy good then?  Nothing needs to be fixed, tweaked?

[Luther Blissett]

I don't care much for barter alts etc. But your second point... well, I've yet to see an NPC trader with any caps. Might have to go and move some boxes or shovel some shit

[Solar]

Say, once 5 dudes with mausers are spawned, 5 (or more) masuers dissapear  from vendor's stock? Some random "selling" stuff to nps for caps to increase it's ammount in the economy and decrase ammount of stuff in market?

This was tried once, the problem is the there are lots of encounters. You either start with absolutely huge starting values (which is the same as allowing them to spawn from nothing) or eventually players will reach the limit and human encounters basically stop. Then players complain



The idea I'm currently going for is seperating out Low from High, so that the hugh influx from encounters doesn't swamp the economy (or the part of the economy I actually care about protecting) and it can be regulated - at the same time that weapons and armours are not so rare, so everyone can arm themselves and continue to level.

The measures so far are:

Reducing the amount of caps in the world - these are valuable in themselves (mercs, bases) so need to be controlled, but also are the mechanism where you can swap crap for good stuff (sell crap at crap merchant for caps, go to good merchant and buy good stuff for caps). TC rewards were moved away from caps, traders spawn less, quests where you can alt to get loads of caps were/are being reduced in value, interest is non infinite.

Taking "Tier 2 equipment" off easy encounters and moving them exclusively onto encounters which take a bit of time, money and skill to defeat and loot (hopefully these are actually fun too, to produce some worthwhile PvE)



The increasing of Reputation as a factor is also to reduce the advantage barter alts give you.

First the base amount was increased so even people who aren't tending to their prices get a decent amount

For the rest, it is 2:1 importance of rep:barter, you could max out your barter skill at 300%, but someone with 1% barter and has taken the time to increase their rep will get a much better price. This means you can't pump your skill and get a great price everywhere, you would probably make more money increasing rep around the world to have a greater choice of traders.

Barter is a fundamental skill from the originals, don't really want to delete it - so hopefully this compromise allows it to be worth something to traders, but doesnt just fuel alts (too much).


About multiple items at traders lowering their price - this is intended, its just not as easy to implement as clicking a few buttons. Hopefully before too long.

[ErnestGaskin]

That sounds awesome, thank you.

And yeah, i do realise that this rarity concept aint that easy to implement, thats why im not bitching - i can do that too

However i do feel like its the only thing actually needed towards balanced economy, realistic trading, variety of selection and exploit prevention Even to encourage barter runs.

Exploited yourself 2000 rocket launchers? Good luck, maybe you can throw these at rats, you cant buy a single bullet with one anymore.
Rarity is mostly the only thing that matters on prices - for example gold is useless IRL, yet its highly priced and taken as a symbol of wealth - sand, however, has unbelievable range of uses, and is just lying around
Seen 2000 rocket launcher somewhere, going for 2 bucks a piece, when the guys in SF are in desperate shortage, offering thousands? Start up your cockroach!

Dont know much about reputation though. I can see it working, but to such extent? What makes you think people wont just make idolized characters (as they did before to be able to kill in protected cities), instead of raising the skill the honest way?
not talking about trader in the wastes, trying to make living, not giving shit about some guy that kicked 10 rats to death for the mayor

btw, on the banks & interest - thought about moving (interested, non-existent) cash away by wire transfers? Automated payments for houses, mercs and shit? Real banks generate cash by loaning 1:9 deposited:loaned ammounts with 1:21 payback, and since this aint happening, it seems like those will "break" eventually anyways, unless you move the cash virtualy; having it simply dissapear from the game, but not taking it away from banks.
If you buy a car at smileys it still disapears. Would be nice if the bank actualy kept it and redistributed it on interest at the end of the day. Maybe even keeping some percentage to "keep it real"

[Solar]

On the phone at work, so this will be short :p

Rarity will be nice, agreed

Rep, if someone wants to go round cultivating lots of different reps with different groups then its taking lots more effort than just pumping a skill up - at which point someone playing 1 char and doing the same thing naturally isn't losing out.

Money is recycled back into banks, which is then used to generate interest already. The fun will begin with inflation (much later on)

[Sarakin]

All of this sounds nice as long as you prevent any major economy flaws to exist. Just look at the current season, all these exploits sent economy into void.
Moreover, you cant expect any reasonable feedback on current economy system under such conditions.

[Solar]

We're closing them off, when there's no more major ones we'll fix the damage done.