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Author Topic: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities  (Read 4795 times)

Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2012, 01:15:52 pm »

Sorry to disappoint you but if bluesuit gets blasted for like 268 damage (i was blown sky-high for that amount in NCR) then no armor will help you when having 100HP

JHP ammo man. Try it against any armour. Even leather armour reduces its damage significantly.
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falloutdude

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2012, 07:14:38 pm »


In a civilized society, if someone gets something taken from them, then the authority should try to give it back to the person that it belongs to, no?


no not if you die. when you die your dead and thats that. that is why avv`s suggestion  makes no sense. someone dies and comes back to life to gets stuff back, what! you just died!!.
fallout is harsh.  i know we are trying to make this game noob friendly but really its fallout! its harsh and unforgiven. if you dont want to die you need to be smart. adapt and learning from mistakes is what fallout and fonline is.
if someone does not burst someone every once and awhile and lolz at them it makes them think. lol this game is so easy, am so great. when i was a noob i got bursted soo many times i knew i sucked and worked at becomeing better and learning how to avoid it. its part of the game and part of the fonline experience.

yes something should be in place to make bursters avoid bursting but i think if you lose your shit when bursted you should lose it. no guard gives it back. maybe high rep lose? maybe that person will be unpro in that town for 1 hour after doing it even after death. so others can lol and burst him back so he knows what its like.
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Ganado

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2012, 07:29:23 pm »

It has to be 100% secure or it won't work. If the victim's stuff can be looted he can be burstlooted by 2 players or 1 with proxy and there'd be a reason for normal suicidebursting again.
No, it would still be good if it isn't 100% secure. From what I've seen, most of the suicide bursters don't plan it, and even if most of them did, there will still be times when it isn't planned with another player. It still gives a chance that the victim could get their stuff back. Not a guarantee by god-guards, but a chance.

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no not if you die. when you die your dead and thats that.
But that argument is invalid because we do respawn in FOnline. All the constant grieving is doing is making the population go down.
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maybe that person will be unpro in that town for 1 hour after doing it even after death
sounds good.
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Lordus

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2012, 08:01:55 pm »

I understand author of this topic from several reasons. I was robbed in guarded cities, i tried this "roleplay" on the dark side in my dark game days too.

1) Danger in cities creates atmosphere of the game. Even in those guarded. It is Fonline, this feeling should be everywhere.

2) I agree, that guarded cities should be "more protected" than unguarded, but adding new kind of protection (preemptive or consecutive) often leads into situation, where "regular" players are punished and those bas....rds not, because they know how to violate it.

3) I can guarantee you, that suicide killers (bombers, one hex bursters,...) will always find another way how to play their roleplay. The fact that this kind of behaviour is forbiden only encourage their effort, their innovation.

4) During my personal observation, i realized that players think that guarded zones are safe zones. So they can forget about security. I.e.: players ignore situations of dead corpses of players or guards, they ignore inventory checks of mates...

5) Solutions? Leave it as it is. PK, SBombing and SK will exists, and devs effort should be used somewhere else.

 Or "unguard" all cities. Allow players to create bases near every city (or even in). Let players guard cities (with militia, mercs). This really works in Requiem. Problem is, that only few cities, maybe one is guarded by players.

 Or make from some locations (cities) something between guarded city and players driven city (GM driven city). NPC guards could shoot everyone who is not member, and rest will be one players. Once you get membership, you can kill, robb, thief, SB, SK whatever every other player citizen with consequences made by players. If you troll or PK, they can (leader, GM) order you punishment or even exclude you. Of course that unknown players will not have guaranteed acces, they will have to deserve it (GM could give them special quest, bring something, go somewhere, post your screen from Glow, ...). This could work.
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avv

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2012, 08:36:58 pm »

No, it would still be good if it isn't 100% secure. From what I've seen, most of the suicide bursters don't plan it, and even if most of them did, there will still be times when it isn't planned with another player.

Who do you think reaches the gear fast: a guard or a guy who knows exactly when it happens? There's no way to make a suitable punishment for bursting because alts can always be used.

1) Danger in cities creates atmosphere of the game. Even in those guarded. It is Fonline, this feeling should be everywhere.

I'd like to point one thing out: what danger is there for a bluesuit who carries nothing? Or for the suicide burster himself? Basically there's no danger for those who carry nothing so why should those who actually want to do something useful in towns suffer?
The danger must be equal for all or shouldn't exist at all.
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JovankaB

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2012, 08:50:24 pm »

I'd like to point one thing out: what danger is there for a bluesuit who carries nothing? Or for the suicide burster himself?

This is a great point. People keep talking about this danger that must be everywhere, but the point is people who do shit in guarded towns aren't in ANY danger. Somehow this never comes to the mind of people with "wasteland should be harsh" mentality.
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Lordus

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2012, 09:28:11 pm »

This is a great point. People keep talking about this danger that must be everywhere, but the point is people who do shit in guarded towns aren't in ANY danger. Somehow this never comes to the mind of people with "wasteland should be harsh" mentality.

 They are not in danger, but they helps to create danger for others => atmospehere of game. For me, whole F1 and F2 was about excelent atmosphere. Eliminate them and eliminate even atmosphere.

 There are ways how to survive those PKs in guarded towns. Best is prevention. I suggest that NPC should "speak" about PKs, suicide bombers etc.

 I.e.:when lvl 1-5 meet npc guard or trader, he should spesk smt. like this: "Hello stranger. We cannot protect your safety all the time. Dont go closer to any other stranger, or dont let them go close to you!"

 This could realy help. And if player dont read this warnings, its his fault. 
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Ganado

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2012, 09:57:31 pm »

Who do you think reaches the gear fast: a guard or a guy who knows exactly when it happens? There's no way to make a suitable punishment for bursting because alts can always be used.
You're missing my point. What I said will not prevent all suicides. BUT it will decrease it. Yes, there will be some mad suiciders that will do anything like make proxy/100 bursting alts to be able to do suicide runs. But the majority are not going to bother with that. That goes for what falloutdude said about the person not being allowed back in town for an hour too. I agree with what you said in your first post, but I just don't think it should be a 100% guarantee. Guards should run, also. Not sure exactly when they stopped running but they always used to.
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Shit! Damn admins! Always ruining my fun! I guess I'll talk to them. WITH MY FISTS!!!! No seriously, I will write them a nice email or make a thread on the forums or something. Thanks!
Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2012, 02:43:58 am »

They are not in danger, but they helps to create danger for others => atmospehere of game. For me, whole F1 and F2 was about excelent atmosphere. Eliminate them and eliminate even atmosphere.

 There are ways how to survive those PKs in guarded towns. Best is prevention. I suggest that NPC should "speak" about PKs, suicide bombers etc.

 I.e.:when lvl 1-5 meet npc guard or trader, he should spesk smt. like this: "Hello stranger. We cannot protect your safety all the time. Dont go closer to any other stranger, or dont let them go close to you!"

 This could realy help. And if player dont read this warnings, its his fault.

It's a stupid atmosphere.  Why should towns be more dangerous than the wasteland?  How does that make even a bit of sense?
"Shit I'm going into town, I better make sure not to have anything valuable on me."  "Phew, now I shall go off into the wasteland with all my valuable gear, because it's nice and safe out here"

WTH?  Really people?  I understand wasteland is harsh yada yada yada, but guarded towns should actually... ya know... be guarded.

In the wasteland if you are in an encounter with NCR Army and you try to loot the other corpses... they shoot you.  Why shouldn't the same apply to towns?  The only change would be when the dead person comes back he could pay a small fee and be given his stuff back.

Wasteland is harsh... but guarded cities are supposed to be less harsh. Otherwise what's the point of guarded cities?
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avv

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2012, 12:28:26 pm »

They are not in danger, but they helps to create danger for others => atmospehere of game. For me, whole F1 and F2 was about excelent atmosphere. Eliminate them and eliminate even atmosphere.

But fallout 1 and 2 didn't have any suicide bursters in towns.

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There are ways how to survive those PKs in guarded towns. Best is prevention. I suggest that NPC should "speak" about PKs, suicide bombers etc.

Or even better: let's have npc suicide bursters who randomly kill people and you can't shoot them before they have fired first! That'd totally up the athmosphere.

You're missing my point. What I said will not prevent all suicides. BUT it will decrease it. Yes, there will be some mad suiciders that will do anything like make proxy/100 bursting alts to be able to do suicide runs. But the majority are not going to bother with that. That goes for what falloutdude said about the person not being allowed back in town for an hour too. I agree with what you said in your first post, but I just don't think it should be a 100% guarantee. Guards should run, also. Not sure exactly when they stopped running but they always used to.

Currently suicide bursting is hardly a big matter because stuff is so abundant. However when it's not, people really start thinking ways to get stuff in abusive ways. That's when you start seeing the dedicated and organized burstlooting and that's when it hurts the victims most.
I simply don't see a reason to develop a feature that doesn't work.
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JovankaB

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2012, 12:45:10 pm »

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However when it's not, people really start thinking ways to get stuff in abusive ways.
This reminded me a gang of Russians who used to suddenly jump from world map into NCR, surrounded you in like 3 seconds, suicide bursted and looted while one of them was making "smoke screen" over your body by spamming a block of Russian letters that looked like "XIXIXIXIXIXIXI". Of course with all the NPC guards around, who couldn't do anything (it's just AI after all) although it was obvious they cooperate.

Sorry, but it's a slapstick comedy not wasteland.
You can't fix everything but the punishment for suicide kills in guarded towns is ridiculously small.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 01:10:49 pm by JovankaB »
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Johnnybravo

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2012, 05:16:57 pm »

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But fallout 1 and 2 didn't have any suicide bursters in towns.
And almost everyone spoke american English :<.
But even so, who on Earth would be THAT retarded to suicide just to kill some guy he may not even know?!
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Johnny Nuclear

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2012, 07:43:53 pm »

i would really want to know why there are bombs ingame.
Only use i see is bombing people in NCR.  :-\
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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2012, 08:00:36 pm »

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i would really want to know why there are bombs ingame.
Only use i see is bombing people in NCR.
I couldn't imagine any better weapon to kill mercenaries or players camping in narrow passage, assuming you're alone. Killing people in NCR is much worse way to waste time. :)
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avv

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Re: Greater punishment for suicide killers in guarded cities
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2012, 10:50:59 am »

i would really want to know why there are bombs ingame.
Only use i see is bombing people in NCR.  :-\

In cbt you can throw dynamite in hexes, that might open up some alternative options... like throwing dynamite in ncr   :(
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