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Author Topic: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.  (Read 2238 times)

A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« on: December 13, 2011, 08:53:17 am »

One of the key issues most new players and some seasoned players have with this game is dying at low levels, losing possibly hours of work.  Now yes the wasteland is harsh, and open pvp and full loot drop aren't going anywhere.  So how do we make things less difficult for players without losing anything people cherish?  My suggestion is NPC armor drop.  Now read carefully before anyone panics please.  First of all what npcs wear which armor would have to be addressed, and whether or not certain npcs should drop any at all.

So after the npcs are worked out on who drops and who doesn't a few things should be considered.

Armor taken off of npcs should be deteriorated just like the weapons if not more so considering you're likely filling them full of lead, hot gases, plasma, lasers, or your own fist.  This can be done in a way to maintain npc AC until they're dead (meaning the act of killing them is what reduces it) 

Npc Guards in towns should be excluded from the armor drop system, the same as they are from weapons.  It was made that way for a reason, no point changing it now.  Yes Rangers and Hub guards might become a huge target, but they already are.  It could be said to make them more difficult since they come from actual trained and powerful places.

A way to help regulate it slightly is to add a % chance to the drop, so not every armored npc that can drop armor does drop armor.  A flat table for % would suffice, and could even be changed to make the better armor less likely to drop.

For Power Armor, it could be argued they can be excluded from drop, for various Canon and non-canon reason, for example the act of killing the person inside renders the armor beyond current Wasteland science's ability to repair. 

If players have another means of getting armor like they do weapons, it's just one more chance they have of getting back into the fight.  The armor won't be the best and it won't be perfect but it's way better than skin.  Just like with guns, people will still craft and mine, it just gives low level players a leg up out there.  If they can kill some Marauders outside NCR, and get some Leather Jackets they won't be nearly as pissed when someone blows them away just after getting Busters quest reward.  Of course there are some drawbacks like the market will probably get flooded with low level weak armor, but it's no different than radios.  To help maintain the market, the times broken relation to value should help since armor off an npc isn't going to be brand new.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 08:57:31 am by Trokanis »
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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 02:50:00 pm »

IMHO thats not the problem here with low levels. Actual problem with low levels is taht there are very few quests which are impossible to find without wiki which can bring you to level where you can actualy shoot some NPCs in encounter and survive.
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avv

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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 03:03:16 pm »

Npcs already drop their armors in cbt server.
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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 06:46:05 pm »

Main issue as i see it: no newbie protection period.

5-Day Newbie Protection would be optional and only protect you until you do one of the following:
1) forfeit it by targeting another player
2) build your first tent
3) play 5 days

During that time, no other player could target you for weapons hits or stealing. Once expired, you get 5 more days of protection during which time thieves can steal from you but at a high risk the guards will shoot them, and players can hit you but damage is 1/10th normal which ruins their reputation there. Expires when either:
1) you hit another player with weapon or Steal
2) end of Day 10
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Eternauta

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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 06:55:27 pm »

I don't think that NPC droppin armors will make it easier for the low lever character to survive. The character still has to survive the combat and that's the tough part. Low levels are very weak and not only against other players.

I think the best would be to make up a new Hit Points formula to make the gap between your total HPs at lvl 1 and at lvl 21/24 not that big. However such a formula sounds a bit too hard to develop...
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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 07:15:30 pm »

Let me outline this, I'm not talking about survival, players are gonna die.  More quests isn't going to make any new player feel better about being blown away right after getting done with how many ever quests they did to lose the only items they had.  With lootable armors already on the CBT, hopefully it's getting fair reviews.
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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 07:27:25 pm »

5-Day Newbie Protection would be optional and only protect you until you do one of the following:

clean shot for the proxy scout looter alts bro. xD
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Johnnybravo

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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 07:29:23 pm »

You're gonna die either way, but with armors being more available, players are at least going to change their looks quite often. That can be considered as huge thing.
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runboy93

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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 09:02:23 pm »

Such talking about small thing on wastes.. dying :/
It happens, if you are weak and cannot protect yourself or you are stupid and trust wrong person..

But anyway I would like that system will stay as it is now (No need add anything like newbie day protection etc helpers..)
You will learn lesson, if you die many times.. then you want make yourself powerful and gather friends for hunts and win enemies.

Eternauta

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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 01:35:01 am »

Light armors are very easy to obtain already, you just need to craft a few BB's and trade them for a jacket or leather armor. Much safer than getting it from NPCs. I believe players will still kill NPCs for their weapons and ammunition and not care much about their armors.
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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 02:13:49 am »

The newbie protection has been denied, this post is not about that.  And yes people die in the wastes, but for new low level players it is in fact a big thing.  In many cases a huge thing that causes a lot of trouble.  Yes you can craft BB's and head to towns to get armors, but you still come across the same problem, shop shooters, pick pockets, bombers, grid campers, and over all grief.  If you can actually fend for yourself a little more, it might just be the edge to make it less of a draw back to lose everything on you every time some lucky pk finds you.  As stated in an above post they are already testing armor drop in the CBT, and I think this is a step forward.  Having lootable armor won't cost players any kills, any lulz, or chances at grief, it will just give normal/new players a better chance to brave the wastes.
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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 04:33:00 am »

I personally like the armor-drop idea.

I can blow this guy to pieces with a rocket or shred him to pieces with an Avenger and his weapon and ammo will still be intact but his armor is somehow not spared?

And trokanis's reasoning is a plus as well.
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Wallace

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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 03:26:52 pm »

My idea would be a quest for hides as a reward in VC, NCR and Hub

For example as a newbie you'd have to do ten different things (random each time) every one a bit harder than the previous one (bring some "junk" easy to come by, usng some skill somwhere or on someone etc) for each mini quest done you'd get some info about how the wastes are dangerous place coz of player( killer)s and with option to take whenever one want earned hides this way with a STRONG recomendation to get them when there's at least 10 of them

I'm against newbie ivulnerability period it works for most games BUT it'd spoil a post-apocalyptic spirit...
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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2011, 10:55:34 am »

Armors don't mean shit. All mobs should drop caps. That also includes creatures like radscorpions, molerats, etc. so that every newb can earn any money from hunting. At the moment the only way to get caps is to be lucky while trading and finding NPC with caps. I'd also like to quote avv (not exact quote) who said: "newbies learn best when they are raped and killed and have their stuff taken away". This way they don't get falsed view of the wastes. This is an example taken from real life - when parents are too caring for their children, it won't do any good.
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Johnnybravo

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Re: A way to lesson the blow of dying early on.
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2011, 04:12:39 pm »

Yeah, just make everyone think the game is retarded and quit it, because hardcores will feel they are getting rewarded for their "hard work".

Truth is that newbies don't die due to their stupidity, and not even always due to lack of knowledge (they will not die often because of looting items in X vs Y, they see it once and learn), but because of random crits from random critters in random encounters possibly with random PK.

Add more things to learn or decrease random deaths.
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