Other > Suggestions
Game economy, inflation
OskaRus:
--- Quote from: Lordus on December 12, 2011, 11:24:31 PM ---And 2238 is also more like planned economy.
--- End quote ---
Highest time to march from modoc to ring our keys in the NCR square and demand free market. Not introduce more artificial market regulation. ;-)
--- Quote from: Lordus on December 12, 2011, 11:24:31 PM --- Back to my idea. 2238 artificaly set prices and supply of caps IMO negatively affect player vs. player trades
--- End quote ---
Thats just small part of the problem. Prices are set only for low tier stuff or materials (unupgraded weapons). Finding anything usefull (sniper rifle, combat armor) is more of a quest itself consuming much more time than caps by the final trade. Like the queues for bananas i Czechoslovakia. xD NPC traders as i understand them are more like hostile boses or dungeon treasures which sometimes after long and tedious battle drop something of value.
Player interaction in economy is nonexistant in fonline because trading is
a) insecure: youll get robed or (sucuide) killed on meeting point with your customer
b) time consuming: you have to actualy ask on forum or in bublic place (outcome a) and wait for replies
c) requires exact timing: you just have to be loged the same time as your customer.
due to a) any profit of trading is highly disputable and more of a luck than hard work. Due to b) it is much faster to make your own crafter than to ask for goods. due to c) trading between different timezone players or players with different work shifts is practicaly impossible.
I believe some pepople would like to see marketplace flourishing of player life and people huddling about prices but thats just not how trading in MMOs works. Many successfull projects (Eve online, WoW for instance) have shown that single safe (more or less, but suicuide ganks here are much more costly and harder to pull out) unregulated place of trade is required and sufficient for any PvP trading and economy.
With any such marketplace or auctionhous i believe PvP trading would swiftly take over NPC traders in volume and popularity. NPC set prices might be still twisting a prices but there would be at least any prices and trade they migh twist.
Lordus:
--- Quote from: Kanly on December 13, 2011, 12:23:39 AM ---After some time with inflation a combat armor will cost 21000 caps, we will trade with other player? NOOO
We will sell to the traders some lazor rifle find figthing unity ( and we will sell it to the trader to the double of normal price)
or we will give to the trader bb ammo ( with inflation bb ammo = 8 caps huzzah)
--- End quote ---
1) after wipe, you will need to "consume" another same item or more to repair it, so you will not have same large amount of items storaged on bases ground. You want weapons to PvP, you need to repair it. You want sell weapons to NPC merchants, you need to repair it. So not dozens laser rifle from one player...
2) At moment, when new CA would cost 21000 caps, you will be able to sell it to NPC trader at same price (21 000 caps, minus some caps because of sell price is always lower). But at this moment, NPC trader would have still only 5 000 caps spawn per hour in his inventory (those numbers are only examples of course). So almost everyone, who wants to sell something, will drain caps from NPC traders. Temporarily, until next caps respawn. So as a player who need caps, you will have two choices: travel across wasteland and seek for respawned caps (=> population of empty cities, this is good effect), but it will take a time or you can trade with players (sell your crafted items), who have caps. Because at moment, when CA would cost 21 000 caps (after several real life weeks or months), there will exists (like every session) many wealthy gangs with bank accounts or caves filled with dozens, hundret thousands or milions of caps (=fact). And those gangs, or rich players who will need many items (armor, weapons = because of repair ) will have 2 choices = go and sell more of their caps for less items from NPC traders (inflation), or talk and trade less of their caps for items from players (who would rather craft usable items for players, instead of crafting huge amount of bb gun ammo with risk that they will still need more time to sell it).
--- Quote from: Kanly on December 13, 2011, 12:23:39 AM ---If you want realistic market ..
--- End quote ---
I dont think that we want realistic market, we want market, that fulfills its purpose. And purpose of MMORPG is player interaction. Trades with NPC is not player interaction.
--- Quote from: OskaRus on December 13, 2011, 12:35:57 AM ---
Highest time to march from modoc to ring our keys in the NCR square and demand free market. Not introduce more artificial market regulation. ;-)
--- End quote ---
:) This will mean that you will have to remove NPC traders from game, because every NPC trader will deform free player market.
--- Quote from: OskaRus on December 13, 2011, 12:35:57 AM ---Thats just small part of the problem. Prices are set only for low tier stuff or materials (unupgraded weapons). Finding anything usefull (sniper rifle, combat armor) is more of a quest itself consuming much more time than caps by the final trade. Like the queues for bananas i Czechoslovakia. xD NPC traders as i understand them are more like hostile boses or dungeon treasures which sometimes after long and tedious battle drop something of value.
--- End quote ---
But this supports idea of my suggestion. Players with caps needs much more time to find stuff they need (NPC traders seeking). So they craft. But my idea adds another "disadvantage" => inflation. And solution => trade with players.
--- Quote from: OskaRus on December 13, 2011, 12:35:57 AM ---
Player interaction in economy is nonexistant in fonline because trading is
a) insecure: youll get robed or (sucuide) killed on meeting point with your customer
b) time consuming: you have to actualy ask on forum or in bublic place (outcome a) and wait for replies
c) requires exact timing: you just have to be loged the same time as your customer.
due to a) any profit of trading is highly disputable and more of a luck than hard work. Due to b) it is much faster to make your own crafter than to ask for goods. due to c) trading between different timezone players or players with different work shifts is practicaly impossible.
--- End quote ---
I agree that this obstacle, but not the main reason.
--- Quote from: OskaRus on December 13, 2011, 12:35:57 AM ---I believe some pepople would like to see marketplace flourishing of player life and people huddling about prices but thats just not how trading in MMOs works. Many successfull projects (Eve online, WoW for instance) have shown that single safe (more or less, but suicuide ganks here are much more costly and harder to pull out) unregulated place of trade is required and sufficient for any PvP trading and economy.
--- End quote ---
Problem is, that when you reach some level of wealth, you dont realy need to trade with other playres to get stuff, because you are self-sufficient (player or faction). So you can have free market, but no ECONOMICAL need to trade there.
--- Quote from: OskaRus on December 13, 2011, 12:35:57 AM --- With any such marketplace or auctionhous i believe PvP trading would swiftly take over NPC traders in volume and popularity. NPC set prices might be still twisting a prices but there would be at least any prices and trade they migh twist.
--- End quote ---
That could exist even if my suggestion would be implemented. But on other way, auctions, where you set up price and amount, than you leave for a while is not the exact form of player interaction, i would like to see in MMORPG, because you can practicaly do bussiness without any contact with other players.
Infiltrator:
This is utterly useless. It'll just ruin the prices and also the way you trade. You higher the price, you lower the price of the item you sell. It's pointless.
Shonsu:
if we want further player to player trading we need an auction house. Bring your item in, set a starting price and a minimum price, and an end date and players can come in and bid on that item. A guarded zone obviously. Anyone caught with a weapon in his or her hands is instantly shot.
This solves both problems of safety and time zone issues.
p.s. how's tis maintenance thing going to work after wipe? Any specifics?
Lordus:
--- Quote from: Infiltrator on December 13, 2011, 02:17:25 AM ---This is utterly useless. It'll just ruin the prices and also the way you trade. You higher the price, you lower the price of the item you sell. It's pointless.
--- End quote ---
I agree, that this would change the way you trade in this session. But because of exact purposes i described before. Useless? Well, if you think that change in price of goods and sevices does not affect human (player) behaviour... ::)
--- Quote from: Shonsu on December 13, 2011, 05:40:07 AM ---if we want further player to player trading we need an auction house. Bring your item in, set a starting price and a minimum price, and an end date and players can come in and bid on that item. A guarded zone obviously. Anyone caught with a weapon in his or her hands is instantly shot.
--- End quote ---
Auction house is idea that could exists or not with my suggestion. I agree, that wasteland needs absolutely safe place for trade (no PKs, no thiefs, no suicide bombers, ...). I can imagine, that players should pay some minor payment for this secure services. (dozens or hundreds of caps per entrace/time ..), so more unsafe places would still provide pleasure for players that parasites on other players.
It is sad, that 2238 is on edge of sandbox game. Imagine, that you can create outpost where you want, so you can create it near NCR, make it visible and start your merchant (auction dome) roleplay. Or imagine, that you can rent a place in NCR to make your bussines there...
But player vs. player trades should not be without direct players interaction. It is wasteland, market place, where you need to meet players, talk with them, negotiate, trade or not, make contacts and future discounts, friends... Auction house, where your player vs. player trade will realized thru another NPC is not reason why to play MMORPG (because of absence of direct interaction with player).
And another reason. Why do you think, that auction dome would help players? Again, rich gangs and players could totaly deform prices of items (and they did), they will buy all pvp usable stuff. Simply. And it would be buggy, very buggy. Rather simple solution.
I remember many post wipe times, when i traded on NCR bazaar with other players. But this trades, motivated by getting first needed stuff to level and arm your chars disapeard, when players reached some level of wealth. My idea wants to improve trades after this stages, motivate players to do that.
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