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[ThePhoenix77]

How about making running with 2 hand weapon use AP - I think this would give more  balance to Unarmed/Melee, have better chance of reaching ranged targets as they would have to walk to preserve AP or change weapon to 1 hand weapon which uses AP to change weapon.

[Chrupek]

Excellent idea. Makes sense, but it will do p90 bursters overpowered.

I think that only theis small suggestion should be implemented: with bonus move perk, your APs regenerates while moving. slowly, of course. Like 1/4 (or 1/2 for 2x bonus move). No regeneration at all, without this perk.

and another RT unrelated perk: earlier sequence. I think that sequence should be somehow important in RT fight. Maybe high sequence should give some extra APs regeneration at start of 'resting' (standing and waiting for Aps). for example: sniper with high sequence, has 8 Aps max, but now hes drained. Hes running around corner, and there he start to rest. Normally he should wait 3 secs for 2 Aps, but with bonus of sequence, first 2 APs are spawned almost immediately. The rest Aps are growing normally.

[T-888]

Implement stun, dash and slowing punches : - D. We would have real ninja wastelanders not like now punching bluesuiters.
And for real statement - unarmed& melee are only good with camping small building and can be used in TC ut they would need to outnumber enemies with BG or it would be useless shit.
Next thing is that some weapons still are like water weapons or work like stick and stones.
Moreover some dashing punches/attacks with melee weapons should be implemented to have CHANCE to hit enemy in open area(in closed area it would make it more funny but teleporting guys would not be easy to make).

1/4 barely touches anything in this topic  , the rest is questionable personal opinion witch is really pointless unless you make a new suggestion and support it more precisely , you don't even give opinion about the suggestion itself only some byproduct problem , witch you didn't even read all posts and give opinion about the rest of solutions how to balance unarmed , melee weapons.

AP bar for movement would bring RT closer to TB which I think is one thing that would be good.
tons of pure opinion that are unimportant to this suggestion.....

RT closer to TB huh ? Please make a new suggestion , i don't see how this concerns this subject at all.

Not a bad idea, action points should either regenerate or movement should be faster. Because currently, characters with less action points have cheaper movement in CTB.

Thank you for actually noticing the suggestion itself.

Not bad a point , it would actually make sense if characters with more action points have an advantage in movement , simply put if they have more action points they would regenerate AP more faster than characters with less points , while running or walking.

Remove the one hex burst damage increase and melee weapons will get there rightful place.

Really ? Okay please make a new suggestion and lets talk about it.

Excellent idea. Makes sense, but it will do p90 bursters overpowered.

I think that only theis small suggestion should be implemented: with bonus move perk, your APs regenerates while moving. slowly, of course. Like 1/4 (or 1/2 for 2x bonus move). No regeneration at all, without this perk.

Thank you for acknowledging this subject.

I don't think it is a good idea to make such perks , everyone would take bonus move perk then another " must have perk ", it would give less space for others utilities for characters and therefore make even more alts due to unnecessary variations of them , as i said this is a utility for everyone not limited by perks or anything else to be more precise.

About the p90 being overpowered , well i personally think that big gunners would be overpowered. But i can't give any hard proof or strong arguments for that so it's pointless to mention it from my or your side , this needs a test to actually see how things go.

About sequence affecting RT combat , that really needs a new suggestion. I think something like that have been suggested , at least the concept that sequence affects RT combat , try to search for it i'm sure you will find something.

How about making running with 2 hand weapon use AP - I think this would give more  balance to Unarmed/Melee, have better chance of reaching ranged targets as they would have to walk to preserve AP or change weapon to 1 hand weapon which uses AP to change weapon.

A completly new suggestion.

So many ideas , why only in this topic ? Don't get me wrong most people here come with genuine new ideas and systems that needs a new topic for them to be discussed in order for this topic to stay somehow on track and not go completly off topic.

[ThePhoenix77]

A completly new suggestion.

So many ideas , why only in this topic ? Don't get me wrong most people here come with genuine new ideas and systems that needs a new topic for them to be discussed in order for this topic to stay somehow on track and not go completly off topic.

How is it off topic?

So my suggestion is to allow actions points to regenerate at a decreased speed while running and walking.

making running with 2 hand weapon use AP = regenerates at decreased speed

[T-888]

How is it off topic?making running with 2 hand weapon use AP = regenerates at decreased speed

The thing is it may not be completely off topic , but it surfaces a brand new idea that should be discussed and overseen in a separate topic , to not make this suggestion a complete mix of various stuff , some suggests some movement action bar instead of this suggestion  , another one new fix for unarmed/melee weapon balance that concerns only one problem of my idea , in the end this discussion can end up in a big mix , barely unreadable.

It is an observation made by me , it is how some topics go to utter unreadable shit.

Making 2 handed weapons use up action points or and make them regenerate your points at decreased speed , sounds like a simple limitation , interesting but what it will achieve ? One handed and two handed weapons have already differences that makes them balanced , one handed weapons cost less action points but deal less damage at the same time , two handed weapons cost more AP and deal more damage. So you will just give a bigger disadvantage to two handed and make one handed weapons more powerful against everything including unarmed , melee weapons since two handed weapons could be used less because of that limitation , still that is not for sure. because .....

People will be still able shoot you in eyes with lazor , 223 pistol or whatever without any penalty , the same thing goes for two handed weapons they will still one hex burst you and shoot you in eyes , the decreased speed of action points regenerating while using 2 handed weapons couldn't give big enough effect to give any effective results.

So yes it is a brand new idea that concerns more weapon , skill balance than my suggestion.

My idea is that everyone has the same utility that is pretty much not limited by anything no fucking two handed weapons , no fucking perks and no fucking special stats. This feature is close to universal since the only thing that makes a difference is more action points , more AP means faster regenerating while running , since the speed is calculated from the maximum action point count it is flexible , doesn't need any perks , specials or anything.

[Johnnybravo]

Also take note that if you implement only regeneration while moving, but keeping the same movement speed, critters with high amount of APs like Death Claws will still not be more dangerous, while useless vermin like rats will still be very fast compared to their agility. But high movement speed might make action points way too important, because they will get huge non-combat value.

[T-888]

Also take note that if you implement only regeneration while moving, but keeping the same movement speed, critters with high amount of APs like Death Claws will still not be more dangerous, while useless vermin like rats will still be very fast compared to their agility.

How action point regeneration while running should affect running speed ?

The bold part says how it is now , i don't see how that is related to regeneration AP while running. There have been other suggestions that touches the concept of some features like perks or something else affecting the actual movement speed of your characters ability to run faster. Different stuff i can't recall precisely and i don't think i should.

[Johnnybravo]

There are several possible ways to handle action points per movement.
In TB, you will move 10hexes for 10AP + whatever perk bonus you have.
In CTB movement does not work that way. If you had no regeneration per movement like currently, you emulate AP cost. Faster movement would result in less time used for movement, and thus emulate more action points available with all consequences.
If you instead regenerate some AP when moving (harder to tune, because something must be default value, and people with less AP than that should even spend AP on moving :S). And you do not have full list of advantages that you have in TB either - because everyone will be moving on same speed, it is not possible to create or cut distance, even though one of the character has higher amount of action points. But it will not change game outside combat - and it will for sure make low AP characters annoying to play.

[T-888]

There are several possible ways to handle action points per movement.

The thing is actions points per movement are already in TB , only the thing is you can't make each action point spent on movement make you travel further as it would seem to be faster in RT , as you stated before. But were talking about RT at least for regenerating action points while running , i don't want to get mixed up.

In CTB movement does not work that way. If you had no regeneration per movement like currently, you emulate AP cost. Faster movement would result in less time used for movement, and thus emulate more action points available with all consequences.

It would be in that case if there was regenerating action points while running and action points per movement implemented in RT.

I think i misspelled i wanted to ask you why not how regenerating actions points while running should need to affect running speed or be related to movement per action points in RT ?

Not if both features existed simultaneously. sorry for my error , still interesting to read.

Damn how am i tired to write " regenerating action points while running ", i think i will regenerate action points while running when i am gonna sleep.

[Chrupek]

Dont get me wrong T-888, its still about YOUR suggestion, not offtopic.

I think that AP regeneration while running wont work correctly. Because different characters, need running for very different purposes. BG tank, need running for getting in 1-3hexes from target. In opposite, sniper characters, doesnt need running, until they're in that few hexes from bursters. Comparing only those two black/white characters, your suggestion drastically change balance between sniper vs bgner.
There are some HtH characters too, which would definately benefits after your suggestion will be implemented (still only 1v1), but its minority.

The main result would be chaos, and imbalance. Even more important END (just get shitloads of HPs, 2x toughnesses and run through battlefield).
Which i think is not good at all.

But this could be step in good direction if you allow some tactics in combat. For now, walking is completely useless in RT. We have no option, in case of movement. every char just runs, because it costs nothing. If APs could regenerate while WALKING, and doesnt regenerate while RUNNING, this could work. This could give bonus for chars in good position, and nerf running-around-bursters.

This is even more logical, than your suggestion. Because, if APs are regenerating while youre moving with heavy stuff, there should be no APs at all. But if you have bonus while moving slowly, somekind of sneaking, you can 'focus' on your target and perform another shot. While youre running, i think, you cant properly focus, on battlefield, and you just looking for cover.

[avv]

Chrupek if aps regened while running and walking it would mostly have impact on 1vs1 combats. In bigger scale fights group consistency wins and that can't be achieved by running around.

[T-888]

I think that AP regeneration while running wont work correctly. Because different characters, need running for very different purposes. BG tank, need running for getting in 1-3hexes from target. In opposite, sniper characters, doesnt need running, until they're in that few hexes from bursters. Comparing only those two black/white characters, your suggestion drastically change balance between sniper vs bgner.
There are some HtH characters too, which would definately benefits after your suggestion will be implemented (still only 1v1), but its minority.

The main result would be chaos, and imbalance. Even more important END (just get shitloads of HPs, 2x toughnesses and run through battlefield).
Which i think is not good at all.

What are you talking about , it will work correctly and everyone runs for the same reasons engaging enemy , retreating , changing position etc. etc. everyone will have this utility , everyone will have advantage while , retreating , chasing actions that requires you to be on the move , in this case they will regenerate some extra few action points witch wouldn't be such a big deal to drastically change the balance of current weapon system , no matter what build.

It more like seems you have problems with the current balance system rather than my suggestion. Take it somewhere else not here.

But this could be step in good direction if you allow some tactics in combat. For now, walking is completely useless in RT. We have no option, in case of movement. every char just runs, because it costs nothing. If APs could regenerate while WALKING, and doesnt regenerate while RUNNING, this could work. This could give bonus for chars in good position, and nerf running-around-bursters.

No.

One of the reasons i play 2238 is because i can still shoot someone in the head and then run , i don't want pvp here to end up sluggish like in other projects. Simple.

It's not tactical to be slow(don't mix up being careful two different things) , in any fucking way

[Johnnybravo]

If APs could regenerate while WALKING, and doesnt regenerate while RUNNING

Action points are kind of time units, not the level of your stamina. It makes absolutely no sense to get them from walking. Again check out TB, if you are crippled, it costs you more action points to move just one hex.

[Chrupek]

I have no problems with fonline. I think you have problems with reading other point of view. I made this clear, read until u get it.

If your suggestion wont make big difference (as u state), why even consider that? Just for fun of your creation?
Well it make difference, and since the difference is different to different chars, it brings inbalance. No matter how harsh u deny that.

Why not stamina? Its related, because big guns consume more APs than pistols.
APs are hard to define, but regenerate them while running is completely out of any logical in fallout universe. It will bring retarded rushes, and close fonline to hack'n'slash games. Its good as it is. Not perfect, but good.

[Johnnybravo]

Sorry but you're either complete moron or you have not played Fallout.
There was NO realtime/CTB mode in original game, thus to move you had to spend 1 action point per hex moved (and if you had your leg crippled it was 3AP per hex IIRC).
Again this is what it means for realtime if realtime is supposed to play the same as turnbased/original:
Action Point would be defined as AP=Actions/Time. Time is in turns, actions are various - so for example 1AP might be 0.2shots per one turn, or 1 hex per one turn.

Now in realtime there is no such thing as turn, but it still uses rules from turnbase game, so developers might state that for example turn passes every second in realtime. That would mean every second your action points would regenerate (that means for 10AP build, it would be 1AP per 0.1s, for 20AP build, it would be only 0.05s per AP).
But every regenerated AP is still action per time - what was previously 1 hex per one turn, will now be 1 hex per one second, for 10 AP character it would mean 10 hexes per second, for 5 AP character only 5 hexes per second, for 1 second turn that is.

Currently however, you receive nothing when you are moving, no matter how much action points do you have. That means in former case everyone would move say 10 hexes per second. So obviously, builds with more than 10 action points would have disadvantage in realtime mode, while those with less than 10AP would benefit from realtime.

Regeneration makes less sense, because it addresses only a part of this RT/TB mode parity. That means if you regenerate or spend AP when moving, you allow characters to do the same actions per time in RT, but do not grant them positional advantage when they 'use' all their AP on moving.
But still, imagine again situation where turn is 1 second. Now character with 10 AP would be considered neutral for example (but ideally it would be the lowest amount of AP you can have, see later). If he moves, his action points do not regenerate. For character with 20 action points, regeneration would take those default 10 action points, and he would still regenerate 10 action points per turn (that is in this case one second). That means per one turn he could shoot twice and move 10 hexes. While the other guy could either move 10 hexes or shoot twice. Now anyone with less than 10 action points would need to lose the missing amount of action points per second of running (eg if he has 5 action points, after the second of running they are all drained, and he must stop, otherwise he would be performing more actions per turn than his action points would allow).
Bonus movement would still work, because for example guy with 10 AP and 2 extra movement points would regenerate 2 action points per second when moving.

And last thing. It's just retarded to balance around anything else, because that way it will ALWAYS alienate TB rules to RT mode.

It is NOT possible to implement sequence realtime without stopping players for a while, and would be probably better to remove it from TB as well by making TB turns simultaneous (eg. every player in turn based would play at once, but once they spend their action points they cannot play until every other player ends turn as well).


EDIT: by the way to achieve perfect balance between TB and RT (without sequence), action points would need to be REMOVED from RT (instead shooting would take some time before it's completed, so while you spend 5 AP on your shot, your enemy can travel 5 hexes), but as far as I understand engine is still kinda limiting in this aspect.