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[Cold_Fusion]

My bad, should have phrased it like "gathering or production".
It still doesn't change a thing tho...

Returning to Lexx's point about sigleplayer rules not applying to MMO, that's only because in the current state its more like Fallout-shooter then real MMO. Near-edngame gear can be obtained within a day and lost within seconds, that's why everything instantly depreciates and people never really play (apart from rare RP outbursts) characters who aren't 100% efficent in what they're doing (being mostly just killing others who actually tried to be productive, because its easier to profit this way).

[Lexx]

A "real MMO," okay. Mind you, all other "real MMOs" have noob protection, you can't lose all your gear under most circumstances, and it must be harder to obtain high-level gear to keep players busy, who then continue to pay their subscription. Additionally, a lot things that do work in singleplayer just don't work in multiplayer, because of abuse, which is possible in a lot cases. Just think back at bounty hunting and co. It was scrapped because the mechanic just doesn't work in a multiplayer game. Also you are now saying that because you lose your gear fast, you can't play without min-maxing? That's nice and all, but I don't get what this has to do with the thread and gambling.

Even with a cooldown, gambling would become nothing else than a skill to farm money. Doesn't matter if gamble places are dangerous or not. You wouldn't care about the danger anyway, as you only go there with your high-skilled bluesuit gamble alt.

[T-888]

PvE gambling would be extremely easy with a pimped up gamble character. You could make money like nothing else. It will result in a lot people going to the machines, producing money. We actually had this issue already in the very beginning.

PvP gambling would be extremely unfair if a pimped up gamble character is playing against a "normal" character. It will either result in nobody playing against anyone anymore or everyone using a gamble alt. Both situations are bad for the gameplay and if a situation can be abused, it will be abused.

Always with excuses and no alternatives.

Do you want to make the game better or you just can't handle the work that needs to be done in order to make this game with some content ?

300% gambling alts = bad

300% skill cap for gambling = alts = bad

300% skill cap balanced even if you max it out , you won't be able to win all the time = alts = bad

lower the skill cap for example 200 and balance max that you won't win all the time = better

lower the skill cap for example 200 and balance max that you won't win all the time and set it up that you don't gain almost any significant bonus after .... let's say 160 or less = good

Since some universal crafter alts will be able to spare skill points into gambling due to it doesn't need shitloads of skillpoints , there shouldn't be any pure gambling alts.

Solution found , but fuck. Was it so hard ? No , needs work and implementing - yes ! This is considered minor stuff since devs have to do something bigger all the time - yes. Will this be implemented - most probably yes and we never know ! When we grow old and die.

since it's not perfect , nobody is gonna give a crap.

carry on in content less fonline 2238

i had to say what i wish to say

btw most people discuss pointless things that doesn't lead to anything else than more fuck.

Denying someones idea finding reasons and arguments why it won't work , what people should do is fulfill the idea.

[Sarakin]

Even with a cooldown, gambling would become nothing else than a skill to farm money. Doesn't matter if gamble places are dangerous or not. You wouldn't care about the danger anyway, as you only go there with your high-skilled bluesuit gamble alt.

People to do what is the most profitable for them. If I was ganged there regularly, I wouldnt consider it as profitable and rather find other means how to make my living. Its all about choices: Some like to craft their stuff, some rather kill NPCs, others would rather gamble.
Besides, I really dont know why you lean on linear skill functions e.g. 300% skill is twice the better than 150% skill. If you really want to limit alts (not gambling alts, but generally), why you dont make skill functions more cube root/common logarithm like. (The bigger the skill, the lesser gain)

[Lexx]

Always with excuses and no alternatives.


Do you want to make the game better or you just can't handle the work that needs to be done in order to make this game with some content ?

Haha, good fun. I am showing what the problems are and the response is "excuses, excuses!" I don't have the answer to all questions and I don't claim to have the answer to all questions. But I can tell you what will not work in the game, because of a) experience and b) of what we tried and failed with already.

With the next update, we are changing things already to make alts less attractive. If I remember correct, it was said already a few times- if not, then you know it now.

[Cold_Fusion]

What's wrong with alts If You want to wait 10 minutes to log out and in?

Oh wait, I get it! Its all wrong because You can't manage multilogers.
Simply put - people will do all kinds of dumb shit because they CAN.

But why would they constantly try other chars? Because they're BORED.
Because there's no satysfying CONTENT to keep one playing same char
other than PvP ape which is always good for the lulz when You ruin
someone else's shit.

Always compromising with "multiloging issue  in mind" only leads to
halfassed solutions, why don't You get rid of the real problem once and
for all and start from there?

[Lexx]

Multi logging isn't the problem, the problem is combat alt, barter alt, crafting alt,... We are trying to reduce the need for alts, nothing more. Besides, the 10 minutes timeout can be cheated around. Not that this has anything to do with this thread now, though.

Gambling must be fair if you play against other players and it should not become an easy way to farm lots of money when using machines and such. Both can't be achieved if you have a gamble skill which makes you better in winning (in a singleplayer game, this doesn't matter, as it only influences your character and not other players). And even if you can read in the description of your opponent how good his gamble skill is-- would you want to play with anyone who is better than you? He probably will win due to stats, not with his own abilities. It would result in a pure luck based game and nothing serious.

[Cold_Fusion]

Wait, aren't skills supposed to be better with higher number?
If not, what's the fucking point of having any skills at all?
Wasn't all that the idea of RPGs in the first place? Numeric
representations of "how good a character is at performing
action X", rings a bell?

Suppose I agree with You, then remove combat skills and replace
them with "who aims better", add moves and combos for unarmed
and melee, turn First Aid and Doctor into "patch him up minigame",
and finally drop the SPECIAL and Perks because its all those stats
asking for alts again, finally just wipe Fonline servers and make
a Fallout-themed skins for Counterstrike lol.

[Lexx]

Some skills work, some don't. Deal with it. Even in the original games, the gamble skill was useless and in the later games (including Van Buren) it was even scrapped totally.

[Kilgore]

Gambling useful only in singleplayer? That's umm, interesting, hehe

[Lordus]

PvE Gambling in New Reno.

 Gambling skill should not determine the possibility of winnning or loosing during gambling, but only ability to play at different tables/games. Max needed gambling skill could be cca 100 skill points and this skill could raise (to level 100) by using gambling tables or games. (if you dont want to add your own skill points). So in general, you dont need to tag gambling skill and gambling will be alternative minigame, you can test.

 The possibility of win or loose during gambling should be set like in real world machines: cca 40 percent chance to win (=>60 percent chance that money will stay in gambling machine).

 So your skill in gambling will only determine, if you can invest more money in different kind of gambling machines.

 But i would also like possibility, that faction can rent, occupy, control, what ever, some casino and they could get reward from casino income. I can imagine situation, where in Junktown Don Gizmo casino will get as a reward for temporary time (one week) winner of hand to hand combat in local arena. Maybe the winner team could get all of the winning money in the casino (win - lose = reward). But because i think that this is too complicated, they can get only constant amount of money per one player who played in the gambling machine (of course, it has to be lower amount than minimal bet).

 PvP trading card.. i will rather see very rare, random tragic card, that if you collect some of them, you can "use them" and this will give you small bonus in some skill, or perk. Lets players create their own "game" how to get different card, or let them barter this cards,... .

[Jotisz]

Some skills work, some don't. Deal with it. Even in the original games, the gamble skill was useless and in the later games (including Van Buren) it was even scrapped totally.

Hm how about scrapping it then and introducing Piloting or Driving in its place.
This skill would determine the speed of the car, the detoration and the fuel usage.
Under certain percentage player shouldn't be able to drive the car at all.
This could bring in some perks too.

[Andr3aZ]

Hm how about scrapping it then and introducing Piloting or Driving in its place.
This skill would determine the speed of the car, the detoration and the fuel usage.
Under certain percentage player shouldn't be able to drive the car at all.
This could bring in some perks too.

And a lot of taxi-driver alts

[Jotisz]

Well sadly all the skills that used bring in an alt...

[skejwen]

And completly different question - anyone is willing to design traditional TtG card game (traditional one)?