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Author Topic: Skill changes  (Read 2383 times)

Grommok

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Skill changes
« on: September 06, 2011, 02:12:00 am »

I suggest changing the skills by removing unneded one, merging similar ones, and such.
Here is a list of the skill changes that could happen right now:
1. Merging Meele and Unarmed into Close Quarters Combat or something similar, and adding Archery;
2. Merging Barter and Speech into Socials or similar, and adding Crafting, that changes crafting cooldown and determines how many professions you can have (INT based);
3. Changing Gambling with Leadership, that determines how many NPCs followers you can have (CHA based) (suggesting this because slaves and merc dont care if you are ugly);
4. Merge Science and Repair with a more generic Science, and add Gathering, that affects gathering cooldown and quantity of materials gathered (STR or END based) (Note: to repair a item, if it is a weapon the formula will be based, instead of repair, on weapon skill plus half of your science minus 20)

What do you think about this?
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jonny rust

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2011, 03:10:27 am »

Very similar things have been suggested and I have always liked them. It's the best way to start eliminating the need for alting IMO.

As has been suggested before I would also like to see the throwing skill merged with melee/unarmed to further balance HtH fighters with ranged fighters and make throwing obsolete for the explosives profession.

Not sure about a gathering skill though as this would promote alting and while it is a realistic skill to have (i.e. knowledge of minerals etc.) I don't think it would be beneficial to our current situation and I think we should start cutting skills before we ad anymore.

Merging Science and repair however could be a good thing imo (likewise with trading and speech). While it's unfortunate that we need to limit character/stat uniqueness I don't see any other options.   
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Grommok

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 11:43:07 am »

Actually, scypior said that we are goiung to have accounts, so limited number of chars, so having skills for this stuff allows a player to have a total gatherer/crafter, a fighter/mechanic etc etc...
It's not limiting uniqueness. In my opinion, this allows to make more characters, some very specialized, and some able to do a little everythin' ;D
For example, by adding a few skill points in Gathering to your tipycal fighter, you can fight, be paid as a merc, and in the meanwhile obtain all the mats you need for the Crafter/Medic or Crafter/Mechanic. Yes, maybe you cannot score a hit to the eyes at 100 km of distance, but this allows you to "de-specialize" chars. Technically in wasteland you cannot be too much specialized in somethin' that's not fightin'.
3. Changing Gambling with Leadership, that determines how many NPCs followers you can have (CHA based) (suggesting this because slaves and merc dont care if you are ugly);
For players thing will remain CHA-only, as it is now. Just to point ;)
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runboy93

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2011, 12:21:09 pm »

Unarmed and Melee skills should be same. I agree with that.
This suggestion bring also changes for builds and maybe even more better ones.
Re: Skill changes
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2011, 03:46:09 pm »

0. imho skills are hardcoded and can be changed only by ____-----!!!!!!CVET!!!!!-----____
1. seems logical if bow will be included, although not nescessary
2. Crafting cooldowns will be scraped so Crafting skill would be scrapped too. This would cause only crafter/barter alts look different and would change nothing about them in general.
3. Would only make leader alts look different and change nothing.
4. Gathering is heading differnt way than cooldowns.
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jonny rust

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2011, 04:21:23 pm »

Bow will not be added until 3d era, but if we merge throwing with melee/combat it will serve the same purpose.

@Grommok; I didn't realize we would be getting accounts to limit alting. That's great news, but even so, will it actually be enforced? how can it be?
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avv

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2011, 04:45:23 pm »

Merging skills would be good for the gameplay.
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Grommok

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2011, 07:31:21 pm »

0. imho skills are hardcoded and can be changed only by ____-----!!!!!!CVET!!!!!-----____
Guess what? You can rename-remap skills. Merging frees a slot so you can make a new skill.
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Bartosz

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 01:47:00 pm »

Nothing is hardcoded!

Back to subject. I think if we want to have more useful skills and less alts, then we need to connect the skills with end-game activities (still, not much of them). Adding skills for crafting/gathering is just even more alt inviting than cooldowns.
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Grommok

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 02:22:43 pm »

You think?
Well, i suppose you are right. But still we need a Close Quarter Combat or similar, and i think leadership should be added, cause as i said mercs dont care if you are ugly, as long you pay them. Players of course are not merc, and they care!
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Quote from: Grommok
Chi si ritira dalla lotta
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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 10:26:19 pm »

You think?
Well, i suppose you are right. But still we need a Close Quarter Combat or similar, and i think leadership should be added, cause as i said mercs dont care if you are ugly, as long you pay them. Players of course are not merc, and they care!
don`t think commbat alting is that bad afet all.
Different characters can fight different ways. one is best with knife, another is best with spear. Two different styles of fighting - two different people.
And it`s just a "MELEE" skill.
Same goes for energy, BG, SG, throwing.
There are many possible ways of making character that`s why I don`t think merging some will solve anythink.
We already have few different ways to make unarmed character (crit one, barehanded dps, power fist one) they all are different and mergin is just useless.
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Johnnybravo

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2011, 11:32:56 pm »

Like half of skills up there are pointless.
Skilling up is flawed.
Charisma needs to be removed.

Weapon skills are meaningless, all they do is lowering other skills and making low level players useless  - making earlier critters much more difficult. Random stuff is unexciting, not always bad, but when it can be reduced to nearly-100% success rate, it seems somewhat pointless. It'd be far more interesting if proficiency in weapons would be gained another way, perhaps level1 perk or whatever. And skill could increase ability to do things with your weapons. Though it might be quite hard to adjust scaling. Because crippled is binary there's no place to increase crippling rate without touching mr Random. Skill increasing damage may not be good idea either. But with more design decisions it should be possible to use skill this way.
Barter/Speech are useless skills because of charisma.
Gambling is just plain useless.
Science is missing it's purpose because there are no computers to begin with. Though idea of "dungeoning" skill is double edged, because of the alts.
Lockpick is the same school as science, but already has it's usage, OK skill.
Repair is mediocre, though not bad to have. Repairing items is a little boring currently, and it's another chance check, though it has potential in PvE scenarios, and ability to repair items is interesting, though not well executed at the moment. (I would hate if it was use a rifle to repair another, but perhaps eating up an alloy might work, and if somebody wants use another rifle, he can science it :d)
Outdoorsman speeds up travel, which is nice, but the chance driven effect of encounter avoidance makes small amounts invested in this skill useless.
First Aid is excellent skill. It is not affecting any random event, and thus both low and high amount of skillpoint invested make this skill useful regardless.
Doctor is another random check, though at least it scale cooldown, making investment a little more interesting.
Steal is for another chapter, but otherwise it's just another random check, while it has at least one interesting related perk, the skill itself is not spectacular.
Sneak is ok as a skill, but sneaking itself is dumb. This thing scales nicely, though unfortunately it does not do anything much for small investments. Generally it just deduces the amount of skill you can invest elsewhere while increasing the need of your INT.

Ofcourse if sneak and weapon skills are changed, one must be sure that hp amounts would stay relatively the same. For sneak it'd be good if it had another secondary effect that could work well even for low skill amount. (No idea here).
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 11:34:47 pm by Johnnybravo »
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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2011, 04:54:46 am »

just play another game, without that randomness... It was fun to kill guard on Hub respawn with almost 0 unarmed skill with energy crafter with flawed build
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Bartosz

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2011, 07:16:14 am »

We know SPECIAL is flawed especially when it comes to online gaming, but I think we still should try to be as cłose to original as possibłe. But some changes would be nice - poor gambling for example:)
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avv

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Re: Skill changes
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2011, 10:28:18 am »

We know SPECIAL is flawed especially when it comes to online gaming, but I think we still should try to be as cłose to original as possibłe. But some changes would be nice - poor gambling for example:)

It's not just the useless skills but also the skill cap. For example sneakers need about 300% sneak (that's about 560 skillpoints) plus ghost perk to be useful. For that they need huge SPECIAL investations and then can't do anything else but sneak and shoot their weapon. In addition the best sneaks are mass drug consumers. This applies to all pvp builds but sneak is the topmost example. 
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