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Yes!

14 (60.9%)

No! (Please post why)

5 (21.7%)

Don't care.

4 (17.4%)

Total Members Voted: 23

[jonny rust]

It depends on player's temper. Some are getting frustrated and leaving, those players simply don't want to lose or feel fail. My advice is to play single player games or co-operative games, still, in co-operative games someday he'll get into situation where he'll make a mistake and his team mates will be angry on him, he'll be frustrated and leave that game. In single player game there're no other players, if AI will win him, he'll simply load the game. Also he migh try to social-chat games where you can't affect other players in bad way. Those people are usually easy to hurt but also are good empaths as they feel everything more than others and are very valuable in real life for thier close people.

way to profile everyone who has ever gotten frustrated with this game, but I'm pretty sure we all have to some degree at some stage (gotten frustrated that is).

besides I think the point that Gaizk was making is that new players who don't know the ropes take a long time to accomplish tasks that your or I could get done in a tenth of the time simply because we know all the ins and outs. It's not their fault it took them two hours to acquire their first leather jacket, shotgun and brahmin hides, which they probably didn't have much fun getting since they shoveled shit for much of that time and probably spent a good amount of it dead, when all of a sudden the fruit of two hours labor is gone because someone decided it would be funny to burst them, now, its understandable that they should get frustrated. They haven't gotten use to the game yet as it takes some adjustment, and it's not digital possessions they are frustrated over losing, its those two hours they feel they lost. 

Well that's the way it is right? Wasteland is harsh!

we'll sure it's harsh, for the rookie who got splattered all over main street, but what about the burster? Well he has already respawned, is now getting another SMG from his cache and will strut merrily back into town where the guards will tip him their hat and make sure no one fucks with him cause its "protected". Waste is harsh? Waste is only harsh for rookies. Motto should be changed to "learning curve is harsh" or "dropout rate is harsh".

As I have already said this thread is about equal risk. You want to burst someone in town? fine, do it! but I hope you have a really good reason to, because the decision effects you as much as the guy you are bursting. He's lost his possessions and you are an outlaw. After all, in fallout your actions carry weight and have consequences and karma ripples throughout the wasteland, at least that's how I remember it and I don't see why this should be any different.

[EvilKhan_BG]

Nice Idea but I don't think "guards" wuld give a damn if someone Important kills a nobody for no reason, after all in the apocalypse murder won't be the same as today.

[Gaizk]

it's not digital possessions they are frustrated over losing, its those two hours they feel they lost. 

Well that's the way it is right? Wasteland is harsh!

we'll sure it's harsh, for the rookie who got splattered all over main street, but what about the burster? Well he has already respawned, is now getting another SMG from his cache and will strut merrily back into town where the guards will tip him their hat and make sure no one fucks with him cause its "protected".

As I have already said this thread is about equal risk. You want to burst someone in town? fine, do it! but I hope you have a really good reason to, because the decision effects you as much as the guy you are bursting. He's lost his possessions and you are an outlaw. After all, in fallout your actions carry weight and have consequences and karma ripples throughout the wasteland, at least that's how I remember it and I don't see why this should be any different.

And this is just about random bursting, thieving and wasteland encounters are IMO worse than this. Theres NO consequence on anything you do, everything is done in the name of the lulz, and the only, the consequences are just bleak if nonexistant, while the guy who got grieved likely lost a big deal of time.

[HertogJan]

And this is just about random bursting, thieving and wasteland encounters are IMO worse than this. Theres NO consequence on anything you do, everything is done in the name of the lulz, and the only, the consequences are just bleak if nonexistant, while the guy who got grieved likely lost a big deal of time.

You can't do anything about encounters. Shit happens. It's a post apocalyptic wasteland, only the strongest will survive.
The guy who got grieved robbed or killed learned a valuable lesson: don't let strangers come close. Something which especially goes for guarded towns.

[Gaizk]

You can't do anything about encounters. Shit happens. It's a post apocalyptic wasteland, only the strongest will survive.

So you are now roleplaying you are an inhabitant in a post apocalyptic wasteland, and thus you are forced to murder in cold blood whomever represents even the slightest of threats. For a moment I thought people were killing each other just because the could.

Shit happens if it rains while you are walking your way home. When you get robbed and the authorities encourages it instead of pursuing it, well its a brahmin of a whole different color

[Theta]

Well, yeah, I agree, it's the wasteland, and it's harsh, and bla bla bla.

The point everyone's trying to make is if, say, you're playing fallout, and you kill someone at NCR and now you're wanted there and everyone wants to kill you, you don't just die and run back and then everything's honkey dorey again.

If you burst kill someone at NCR, the consequences shouldn't be "death, respawn, run back to town like nothing happened."

Your actions should last well after death.

Edit:
I'd also like to add that if you're going for the realism over fun aspect and saying, "The wastes are harsh, get over it." I seriously doubt if we were actually living in the wastes, there would be naked people running in to towns using a sub-machine gun on the first guy they see. And I'm sure there wouldn't be near as many (if any) suicide bombers.

There's this thing people in real life have that they don't have in the game that stops people from doing stuff like that, and it's called self-preservation.

In a real life wasteland scenario, yes, it'll be rough- There will be raiders and gangs and what have you, but the actiongs in question in this thread just wouldn't happen in the wastes.

[Senocular]

Fonline: 2238 aka Fonline: No Fun Allowed

I mean, bursting people in NCR is fun, suicide bombing as well. You should never feel safe anywhere. You care about being bursted in NCR as if it was such a big deal. Don't bring stuff there so you won't lose anything. Besides, if you enter with combat armor while being 1 lvl you deserve to die.

[Theta]

This is of course implying the character in question has a tent. You can't just run out in to the wasteland and start slaying brahmin- You've got to do some work in town before you can go out and get yourself a tent- Which means you have no where to put your stuff, and since Brahmin are so rare around NCR now, in order to get a tent, level 1 noob players all by themselves have to travel all the way to Modoc with a 10mm pistol in the hopes of getting a place to keep their stuff.

Also I don't know what this is about a level 1 with combat armor I've never seen that.

[Gaizk]

Fonline: 2238 aka Fonline: No Fun Allowed

I mean, bursting people in NCR is fun, suicide bombing as well. You should never feel safe anywhere. You care about being bursted in NCR as if it was such a big deal. Don't bring stuff there so you won't lose anything.

Im gonna try and appeal to your common sense. I already pointed out, THERE IS FUN, there are laughs on killing people randomly out of the blue, however the point is, this laughs are more like GIGGLES, like a whim, something made out of boredom and the urge to kill stuff just because you can. Now that HAS CONSEQUENCES, wether you like it or not. We have come to adapt ourselves to this kind of behavior, since being a douche and an asshole REPETEADLY has proven to be rewarded, thus we dont bring important stuff to towns out of sheer fear.

You cant be too narrowminded to not see the consequences on bursting people, how disproportionate the fun ends up being. But sure, if you just dont care and like being a childish prick, then go ahead and jump in the wagon the developeres made of this game

[codave]

I really don't care either way, and I'll tell you why. I know I'm fairly new to the forum, I don't post much, and I'm not really known in-game.

HOWEVER, what a few of you are forgetting is that we are not NPC's. If you implement new rules, people will just find a way around them. So you implement more rules, which are quickly circumvented as well. So, now we need more rules...

...it just doesn't work. Rules do not change human behavior. Not only will we go the easiest route possible, we will also go to great lengths if we feel like we are outsmarting another person. Your problems would not be stopped, or significantly curbed in any way.

We would just have new rules to deal with.

As I feel that any of the changes implemented in this thread will likely have little appreciable effect on game play, I for one don't care what they decide to do about it, if anything.

http://fodev.net/forum/Smileys/classic/undecided.gif

[Theta]

All I'm saying is killing in unguarded towns = Rep loss with that town/No longer being "protected."

I don't care if people get around it or not, you shouldn't be forgiven of all crimes just because you died.

[Swinglinered]

Just make rep loss mount at much faster rate as well as fade at much slower rate.

Also upgrade rep system to include posses, and introduce Karma system.

People can get around these, but alternative is to WoWify Fonline.

[RavenousRat]

All I'm saying is killing in unguarded towns = Rep loss with that town/No longer being "protected."

I don't care if people get around it or not, you shouldn't be forgiven of all crimes just because you died.

Just make rep loss mount at much faster rate as well as fade at much slower rate.

Also upgrade rep system to include posses, and introduce Karma system.

People can get around these, but alternative is to WoWify Fonline.

Oh no, don't force me to create alts with 10 PE, 10 AG, one hander trait and SG tagged with names:
PointBlankBurster1
PointBlankBurster2
PointBlankBurster3
PointBlankBurster4
PointBlankBurster5
Only because I'll have problems after bursting people in NCR and will have to relog after each burst.

[Gaizk]

Thanks for pointing that one out Ravenous, but I got to admit we are not seeking perfection here, but more like balance and fairness. Im not even sure to how extent we can limit people from killing each other on places they're not supposed to, when you give them the chance to simply do it. But I can tell you this, its gonna be a chore doing those alts, and guards can become ¨Sensitive¨ to continual bursting, and thus autoshoot whomever unholsters a gun in Town, and shout to those who bring them.

There can be ways to avoid all this, but  I just dont know to how extent they could work, this whole ALT system completely buttfucks and loopholes most ideas I try to come up with, we can just hope to lessen the grievers influence, but not eradicate it

[Theta]

Exactly what Gaizk said.

So what if you'll find ways around it. People find ways around everything.

I just want some sort of punishment, that way at the very least, less people will do it.

And if, as you're suggesting, people like you want to take time out of your way to make alternate accounts and use proxies and whatever else you need to do to get around it, so be it.

I won't be mad when I die because I know in the time it takes me to get back where I was it'll take you twice as long to get back to where you were.

The only time you'll be wasting is your own.