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[Reiniat]

Fallout 2 combat skills were based in the power of the weapons, it was obvious that EW were better than SG or Throwing, the game was intended to use first SG and then use EW or BG.
But this is Fonline and to properly make all combat skills balanced (wich mean that all the combat skills are equal useful in a random battle) i suggest this:

1.-Merge SG and BG into the Van Buren's skill "Fire Guns", a distinction between SG and BG crafters will still due to the lot of weapons, it sounds like a nice deal to me because there is no moving velocity penalty to BGs.
2.-Eliminate the Traps skill; there is no trap in the whole game, and this skill is only to explosives issues
3.-Eliminate Throwing skill, it includes explosive weapons and the throwing knifes, wich are both related to other skills.
4.-Create the new Explosives skill wich will include the next weapons:
-All grenades (including plasma)
-All stuff related to the Traps skill, like the dynamite and the dynacord stick
-The Rocket Launcher
all this guns will be included in the Demolition expert proffession wich could be rename Explosives expert, all the guns will still with the same tier
5.-EW will include the FlameThrower, its a minor change but is logic since the FlameThrower throws flames not bullets, this gun will be one tier craftable for EW profession, the Repair skill needed to craft it will be removed. This skill really needs more guns, nerfed of course, tough it stills a good skill due to the big damage dealed by the Plasma weapons.
6.-Throwing Knifes will be moved to Melee weapons, wich can be a nice improve to ranged attacks in this type of builds. Also some damage increased bonus to throw Spears sounds good, like 25-30, still 8hex range.

Of course a change like this is really big, and we dont know how many new builds or exploits can be achieved this way. But since its easy to implement it could be a nice thing to test in the pre wipe or the pre pre wipe madness, after all this is a beta.

PD: One of the mosty unfair builds in the game is the Rocket Burster, wich uses Avenger minigun and Rocket launcher, giving the player good weapons for all distance combat, with my suggestion Rocket Launchers will be in other skill (and will be "Boomers" and not the ugly designation of "rocketers")

[LagMaster]

F1r$t

well, how about we do it like in New Vegas:
we delete traps, trow and BigGuns
Small guns will become Guns and it will include miniguns and Light Machine Guns(LSW,M60)
Energy weapons will include plasma nades, catle broods and flamers
The new Explosives will contain the frag nade, mines, RL, dynamite
trowing knives will go to melle(optional: transform melle to primitive weapons)
power fists and rippers will remain where there are cuz they do normal dmg

[naossano]

Except that i would change the purpose of those skills.

Throwing >> The guy is good to throw things.
Unarmed >> The guy is a good fighter
Melee weapon > Same, but with a little tool
Big Gun >> The guy is good to carry heavy weapons
Energy Weapon >> The guy is good, mastering energy weapons (that are not heavy but hot and unstable)
Small gun >> The guy isn't good to carry heavy weapons, but is better with classic weapon
Traps >> The guy doesn't actually fight, but trap others.

These type of weapon don't need the same type of guy.

I don't see why a guy that is good with hammer should be good with throwing stuff.
Or a guy that carry heavy weapon should be efficient with sniper...
It's not because some weapons deliver the same type of damage that they need the same kind of guy.

The only problem, i think, with the actual system, is the energy guy...
And we need perk to distinguish hammer user than combat knives users...

[BadBoy.]

I'm up to moving Rocket Launcher from Big Guns to Explosives/EW/new category.

"Guns" skill isn't a good idea, that's why - you could use sniper rifle and minigun effectively at the time. Overpowered. Btw, small gunners gets nothing, big gunners can use pistols when crippled (and they don't have to "waste" skill points for SG).

Flamethrower stays where it is (we could attach it to both Explosives and Big Guns), cuz there are really not many weapons big gunners can exp with on low levels, moving flamer away would force them to take SG skill points (if they don't want it, they do not have to take it - I'm not saying it's a bad idea, though).

All in all, changes are huge. FO doesn't need huge changes.

[Chrupek]

I really like, making throwing knifes, melee thing. It creates new possibilities to almost useless melee chars.

But what exatcly means small guns? And big guns? guns are guns, no matter what you call them. If you have enough strength and can use sniper rifle, what problems causes minigun? Its totally unrealistic.
But making only one skill: guns, its bad idea too.
But on the other hand, there should be small bonus to small guns, and energy weapons, when you put points in big guns. Maybe, if you put 5 points to bg, your sg and ew increase by 2 points. When you are expierenced big gunner, its silly that you hav only 40% sg. And vice versa.

Other idea...
The thing that really matters are guns is one-handed or two-handed. Good idea would be making skills: pistols, rifles, and throwing (as it is now).
And still strength is requirement for using such guns. So if you are investing in Rifles and have only 5st, you use Assault, or Plasma Rifle. If you have 8-9 (which is another idea: INCREASE ST REQS FOR BG WEAPONS!!!) you can use minigun, or LSW, or rocket launcher.

[BadBoy.]

If you have 8-9 (which is another idea: INCREASE ST REQS FOR BG WEAPONS!!!) you can use minigun, or LSW, or rocket launcher.

That sounds rationally.
In my opinion there should be no drug-free 2 bursts BG builds (idea to make a BG burst cost one or two APs more, choice would be between one kick-ass-BG-burst and 2 less threatening SG bursts). But higher ST requirements should do.

I think that BG builds are the most powerful. Sniper can be as good as a BG, but he needs more stat points and perks to be playable (10 PE, 10 LK, one shot snipers are not a threat anymore - so 10 AG). BG needs 6 ST (or 7, but he doesn't need high skill to shoot well even with a penalty), high EN (which is actually important to almost every build, no matter what weapon you're using).
So the problem is that you can make a BG more easily, and it has the best kick - compare LSW and AR damage/requirements: you need 10 AG, BROF and 2xAB to burst two times with LSW and 10 AG, BROF + f.e. 2xBRD to use assault rifle twice in a turn (LSW still wins for me, btw, you can add the fact that 2 APs more are really useful in many situations).

[Haterade]

and the crafters will have more chance to survive... i bet

[Reiniat]

As BadBoy says its a bad idea to merge BG and SG, the problem here is: miniguns and another burst heavy weapons need apenalty in some stats due to his insane damage, you can still killing BG with AK-112, P90 or FAL but those are all low power guns against miniguns or LSW.
have a little gun should give you an advantage, not in damage of course.
The best idea is eliminate the 3ST bonus in Weapon Handling, maybe reduce it to 2, or working in a different way.

to Lagmaster..you didnt even read the whole post before troll....

About Naossano the actual melee weapons skill uses throwing weapons, like the spear, and there shouldnt be a big difference between Throwing knifes and combat knifes, in fact you can throw both of them.

I edit first post

[Trias]

Because just because I'm a pretty decent shot with a rifle doesn't mean I can wield a rocket launcher.

[BadBoy.]

miniguns and another burst heavy weapons need apenalty in some stats due to his insane damage, you can still killing BG with AK-112, P90 or FAL but those are all low power guns against miniguns or LSW.
have a little gun should give you an advantage, not in damage of course.

idea to make a BG burst cost one or two APs more, choice would be between one kick-ass-BG-burst and 2 less threatening SG bursts

These two.
The problem is that LSW > any bursting SG. The only "penalty" you get when choosing LSW is that you need not 10 APs, but 12 (with BROF) to burst twice. But you can get over it, because 12 APs looks nicer than 10 and, in fact, you like it more after a while.

In fact, big kick ass weapons in modern armies are the most powerful, as long as you compare weapons not their scope. In FO you do not run faster with small rifles and you can not hide in a bush. And you can have enough ST to weild a heavy gun and burst with it while standing (it would be more realistic if you had to use 2 APs to "set" your gun before shooting, but all BGs will whine in a second, cuz "their characters are as cool as Rambo"). It's a game and actually, higher requirements is the only thing that can blur supremacy that BGs have over SG. Or making burst from BG even more powerful, but impossible to performance twice in turn.

[KruskDaMangled]

One Gun skill might not be as bad as you think. We have heard that the AC and critical hit system is getting changed in the future, so that would influence things. Just because you have the skill to technically use both kind of guns, that wouldn't mean you had the perks and stats to make it decisive against opponents that might potentially, be built in a way that made it hard for you to crit, or even hit them.

It would free up skill points for other things, certainly.

One must also consider that we have heard that higher tier guns might not be so readily available. It would change the way pvp and pve went if your readily available guns were tier 1, and more rarely, tier 2, with very few and special tier 3's. Because I can't see a character specialized in BG bursting actually getting any undue utility out of a hunting rifle, or a bad/cheap pistol beyond what the minigun did (in the first case, if they had average or low pe, they would be gimping themselves, because the Hunting Rifle is just plain bad at dps) . Likewise, a character that was a gun slinger or sniper wouldn't necessarily be significantly more effective with a mingun, and might have trouble dealing with the str requirement.

[BadBoy.]

Just because you have the skill to technically use both kind of guns, that wouldn't mean you had the perks and stats to make it decisive against opponents that might potentially, be built in a way that made it hard for you to crit, or even hit them.

Imagine BG character based on luck, (25% crit chance, 220% BG skill). I haven't played with such, but if i could get free 220% in SG to shoot you in the eyes with Sniper Rifle to knock you out and then finish bursting with minigun I would definetly make a sniper/bg.

[Senocular]

Imagine BG character based on luck, (25% crit chance, 220% BG skill). I haven't played with such, but if i could get free 220% in SG to shoot you in the eyes with Sniper Rifle to knock you out and then finish bursting with minigun I would definetly make a sniper/bg.

Everyone would. That's why this suggestion sucks.

[Reiniat]

Everyone would. That's why this suggestion sucks.

i already knew that error, you can see it in the first post, you must read the whole stuff before post.

[DocAN.]

BAD ideas, its Fallout based game not new one.