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Author Topic: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem  (Read 12000 times)

Johnnybravo

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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2011, 12:31:10 pm »

Yeah, that's what I thought, no further doubts, your argument was just one-sided and pretty much invalid from the beginning of the thread, this posts just proves it.
In any way, a little response will not hurt:
The number of taxi alts is pretty low compared to player base, and much of them are real characters just made with higher outdoorsman and charisma, still capable of doing many other things.
Alting is not a big problem on it's own, game just badly needs account system so multiple characters could be registered under one person, which would prevent some abuse ( ofcourse there should be some bonus discouraging from creating multiple accounts ).
And powerbuilds being problem? That's just you, there's no way everyone would create 6-6-5-6-6-6 chars and tag all the guns in there.
Logically if somebody plays a character with small guns, he might want to try big guns, unarmed or whatever else as well, so he'll not just delete his old character but make another one, there's no science in that.

And how exactly spending 4 charisma points in more useful stats hurts the game?
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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2011, 01:07:42 pm »

Yeah, that's what I thought, no further doubts, your argument was just one-sided and pretty much invalid from the beginning of the thread, this posts just proves it.
In any way, a little response will not hurt:
The number of taxi alts is pretty low compared to player base, and much of them are real characters just made with higher outdoorsman and charisma, still capable of doing many other things.
Alting is not a big problem on it's own, game just badly needs account system so multiple characters could be registered under one person, which would prevent some abuse ( ofcourse there should be some bonus discouraging from creating multiple accounts ).
And powerbuilds being problem? That's just you, there's no way everyone would create 6-6-5-6-6-6 chars and tag all the guns in there.
Logically if somebody plays a character with small guns, he might want to try big guns, unarmed or whatever else as well, so he'll not just delete his old character but make another one, there's no science in that.

And how exactly spending 4 charisma points in more useful stats hurts the game?

Johnny,

You see I disagree with you about Alts 'Not being a major problem' plenty of people in game have turned around to me and said "You need more alts - Buyer/Seller, Fighter and Crafter Alt''

Some form of IP account system would be most welcome in game.
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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2011, 01:15:11 pm »

taci alts are used instead of cars only because there are no safe parking places instead of alt-tents. It is much more comfortable for ocasionall pvp apes to let themselves drag to battle by taxi alt (or even proxy taxi alt.) than maintaining car and alt-tents in each place he wants to go. Safe parking places would make pure taxi alts practically extinct.
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JovankaB

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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2011, 01:19:04 pm »

And powerbuilds being problem? That's just you, there's no way everyone would create 6-6-5-6-6-6 chars and tag all the guns in there.

I have no problem with powerbuilds as long as they pay a price for having some stats ridculously low. I have a powerbuild myself. Alts are abused to remove consequences of low stats. So you remove all problems of low stat for 9 people with a single alt. Very often it's open cheating with dual logs. All this sugestion would do, would be faster travel than now for everyone who travels alone, for balanced characters and for smaller groups of people and making cars even more useful for large groups of people with low outdoorsman which are usually led by a lame one-purpose alt.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 01:28:25 pm by JovankaB »
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Johnnybravo

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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2011, 01:35:14 pm »

I have no problem with powerbuilds as long as they pay a price for having some stats ridculously low. Alts are abused to remove consequences of low stats. Very often it's open cheating with dual logs. All this sugestion would do, would be faster travel than now for everyone who has to travel alone, for more balanced characters and for smaller groups of people and making cars even more useful for large groups of people with low outdoorsman which are usually led by a lame one-purpose alt.

As I said, you need to think up anything that'd be charisma worth, except for being able to make teams (of NPCs), because many people wouldn't play a game with tons of NPCs, there are no real consequences of dropping charisma low.
Other stats are already being somewhat balanced, such as low luck resulting in more bad things happening for character (being easier to blind, critical failures...), while low charisma results only in merchants sending you away.
Self-purpose taxi alts are useful only for cheaters, because they wouldn't be able to transport themselfs, but only the teammates, resulting in one man missing the show, instead I see more people (atleast from my surroundings) using taxis capable of doing combat or leading more NPCs. And because of their encounter avoidance being already high enough, there's little reason to raise the skill above 200, so I don't see much problems with 300 OD alts.


Also take note that cars make outdoorsman completly useless which is not that good thing as well.

So better solution would be to make cars affected by OD some way ( be it probably less damage taken over time ), cars more useful without alting (tentalt#242 reporting), charisma completly revmaped and characters of one person being linked some way.

Quote
You see I disagree with you about Alts 'Not being a major problem' plenty of people in game have turned around to me and said "You need more alts - Buyer/Seller, Fighter and Crafter Alt''
Your crafter can be Buyer and Seller in fact, because it's only matter of having 3 charisma. But then again you can have your Fighter crafting already, as well as trading, because when stats distributed right, you're still able to fix stuff at expense of First Aid and maybe Doctor (unless you're crafting drugs ofcourse), while still having big enough stats for fighting. And to be honest, it's possible to play and not requiring to trade or craft at all, and it's not only encounter farming, but more important part of MMO game, often forgotten, having some friends doing this sort of stuff.
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Cocain

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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2011, 08:59:25 pm »

or... give access to train from the start
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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2011, 07:26:50 am »

There were many complaints about traveling speed during this season. And it is true that it's a pain to travel, mostly for lone players who can't afford a car. Also I believe outdoorsman was nerfed mostly to make the cars better than pure taxi alts. Because taxi alts didn't cost anything, couldn't be stolen, could take more people and had superb outdoorsman, they were superior to cars in every aspect.

This had to change. But I think I found better solution how to solve both problems in a logical and elegant way.

Make people traveling with an "outdoorsman leader" slow him down. There is just now way that a scout traveling with 9 people who have no clue about wilderness, could be as fast as a scout traveling alone.

My proposal is:
 - bring back fast outdoorsman, maybe not as fast as before, but significantly faster than now
 - outdoorsman used to count traveling speed is average of outdoorsman of all people traveling
 - add one or two extra slots to all cars (seriously, if there is not many cars out there people won't care about comfort)

This will make lone "scout" characters traveling as they were true scouts, but won't make them better than cars to move large groups of people.

Some examples:

Scout with 300% outdoors travels as it had 300%/1 = 300% outdoors.
Scout with 300% outdoors and a friend who has 100% outdoors will travel as they had 400%/2 = 200% outdoors.
Scout with 300% outdoors and 9 PvP apes, each of them with 50% outdoors, travel as they had 750%/10 = 75% outdoors.
Two normal characters with 125% outdoors each travel together as they had 250%/2 = 125% outdoors.


Perhaps scale the reduction on a curve.
With 1 "passenger" you get to count your own OD 2x for making the average, 2 passengers 1.75x, 3 passengers 1.5x, 4 passengers 1.25 x, 5+ = 1x.

This way you can escort a few friends/etc. with some reduction, but mass groups slow you down.
Because they're mass groups.

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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2011, 10:14:06 am »

I dont agree. I think the last change in world map traveling speed was good. It made possible to feel the map as a big place.
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avv

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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2011, 01:03:52 pm »

It's not the travelling speed, it's the encounters. When a player wants to get somewhere, he will simply skip all encounters the way he can so it doesn't matter whether they exist or not at this point.
So what bothers me most is that the punishment for having low OD is to spend more time waiting, ok it's fine but must I also be alert all the time because of encounters? You can't make the worldmap travelling interesting no matter what so people will alt tab and browse the net anyway. Forced encounters gotta go.
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Crazy

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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2011, 01:26:40 pm »

It's not the travelling speed, it's the encounters. When a player wants to get somewhere, he will simply skip all encounters the way he can so it doesn't matter whether they exist or not at this point.
So what bothers me most is that the punishment for having low OD is to spend more time waiting, ok it's fine but must I also be alert all the time because of encounters? You can't make the worldmap travelling interesting no matter what so people will alt tab and browse the net anyway. Forced encounters gotta go.

Agreed. When you have to stop your video 10+ times when going from respawn to your base/car, there is a big problem, cause it's only annoying like hell.
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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2011, 09:58:56 pm »

It's not the travelling speed, it's the encounters. When a player wants to get somewhere, he will simply skip all encounters the way he can so it doesn't matter whether they exist or not at this point.

Most definitely. Even if they were made interesting, relevant to specific areas, interactive - if you were busy doing something else, they'd still be nuisances. I don't know how you fix that, short of removing encounters. But I don't necessarily think that would be an improvement.
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Crazy

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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2011, 10:00:22 pm »

Most definitely. Even if they were made interesting, relevant to specific areas, interactive - if you were busy doing something else, they'd still be nuisances. I don't know how you fix that, short of removing encounters. But I don't necessarily think that would be an improvement.

Simply reduce their chances to happen.
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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2011, 10:02:41 pm »

Simply reduce their chances to happen.

I guess, but it's the same problem, just less of it. I guess if there was a massively reduced encounter rate combined with interesting encounters, they wouldn't be a problem. But making encounters interesting is a whole mess of work in itself.
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avv

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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2011, 09:31:49 am »

Most definitely. Even if they were made interesting, relevant to specific areas, interactive - if you were busy doing something else, they'd still be nuisances. I don't know how you fix that, short of removing encounters. But I don't necessarily think that would be an improvement.

Make the worldmap travelling consume something else than time. For example water. Instead of spending your time travelling, you spend some time gathering some water and then less time travelling. Cars and caravan carts already work like that. It's just getting that water needs to be quick and easy. If someone didn't have water, normal travelling would be applied.

However this just won't work yet since each town has little activity and the need to travel is great, especially for single char. If travelling got a requirement, players would make more town-alts and haul bigger sets of items per travel. In addition it would hurt encounter hunting aswell, since the current way requires to plane back and forth a set of squares.
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Re: Travelling Speed - new solution of old problem
« Reply #59 on: May 06, 2011, 12:30:02 pm »

They could just add a checkbox to auto skip all the encounters if the OD check goes right. This would drastically reduce travelling time, without touching travel speed.

I never tried a char with 300 OD, but if he runs more than a car, well that's pure bullshit. I appreciated the changes and even if at beginning i wanted to kill myself, the slow speed made me get my first cockroach after 3 days and now i got 4 cars parked in my tent... so the devs goal was achieved imho.

Fact is that imagining a guy carrying 9 people on his back and running like a rabbit with his ass on fire is kinda weird, it's way more logical that an entire group will be way more slower than a single player. So i vote yes for Jov's proposal.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 12:33:28 pm by abegade »
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