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[Trokanis]

The problem with Griefers and PK'rs is that they walk in the 'ENDLESS' gray area of this game.  They send bluesuits and lowbies out, and have some cranked up combat/drug build floating too, if the lowbies drop into an encounter with other people they go 'peace' then radio, saying found some fodder.  Next thing you know you're being eaten by a LSW.  So that brings the wasteland to the point of Shoot first or Die.  Some people who play this game don't want to be unprovoked pk'rs.  But it becomes no choice, so then because of others you end up shooting everyone that you mean thus ruining someone's day who may have truly been some lowbie trying to make their way.  It's not Circle Logic, it's Circle of Terrorism.  

The harshness of the wasteland does have it's draw.  But in a G A M E, there has to be some form of ACTUAL limits.  The combination of NO safe place, full loot drop, and pocket lint stealing fools, overshadows the quests, exploring, and scaving.  Your time in game becomes, can you make it to town, then through town to buy/make/trade/sell/talk before getting pinned by shop shooters, picked by thieves, or gang raped by a bunch of LoLz seaking Pk'rs camping around the area.  At that point it's not an adrenalin filled trek through the wastes, it's a overstressed Running spree til you either make the exit-grid and log out, or you get jumped lose everything you just worked for and log out.  Pretty much still ends the same way... 'Log Out'

[Swinglinered]

Implement Karma, and Posses (too much PK in an area, and/or NPC killing in towns, and extra patrols are mounted as a dragnet for offenders).

Also, Wanted Posters/bounties set not just by players, but by NPC factions.

ofc people would just make a rotating network of griefers- have them make tents with each other near towns far away from each other, then swap operating areas when it gets hot.

[yoz]

Implement Karma, and Posses (too much PK in an area, and/or NPC killing in towns, and extra patrols are mounted as a dragnet for offenders).

Also, Wanted Posters/bounties set not just by players, but by NPC factions.

ofc people would just make a rotating network of griefers- have them make tents with each other near towns far away from each other, then swap operating areas when it gets hot.

The coloring system took care of some of that. It was a good feature.

[Who Killed Bambi]

woop!

[Trokanis]

The Karma system add may not be such a bad idea, but as seen by the replies to my post in suggestions, which relates somewhat to this topic.  No one want's to do it.  I would love to see someone who steals/kills in a town suffer rep loss and have to wait it out, much in the same fashion as people who join NPC factions and have to wait til things get abck to -200/+200.  Same goes for people camping bluesuits and other lowbies in the wastes, especially if the lowbies and such are in an npc faction.  Maybe not as much a drastic drop in rep for kills in the wasteland but something.

[Y0ssarian]

"Raiders are any group of people who pillage, plunder, murder, or otherwise ruin the day of anyone unfortunate enough to not be one of them. If there were still laws, they'd be outlaws. Raiders are trying to organize into organizations all over the wasteland, and are one of the biggest problems of the California in the year 2238. Raiders tend to organize into loose confederations of gangs in the post-apocalyptic wasteland and are a constant problem, because it's much easier for them to just shoot people for their money, food, and other valuables than to earn an honest living. Raiders typically prey upon travelers and very small towns, leaving more populous areas alone, where they are easily outnumbered." [sic]

What's the problem? Fallout universe is full of raiders/pkers. The two terms are synonymous.

[avv]

What's the problem? Fallout universe is full of raiders/pkers. The two terms are synonymous.

The problem is that there isn't sufficient consequences and even if there were, they could be avoided with alts. Example: kill vc patrols and members with combat char, sell in shops with barter alt.

[Badger]

Raiders typically prey upon travelers and very small towns, leaving more populous areas alone, where they are easily outnumbered.

[Surf]

And they do it out of desperation, not to show off or kill for the lulz.

[Johnnybravo]

Implement Karma, and Posses (too much PK in an area, and/or NPC killing in towns, and extra patrols are mounted as a dragnet for offenders).

Also, Wanted Posters/bounties set not just by players, but by NPC factions.

ofc people would just make a rotating network of griefers- have them make tents with each other near towns far away from each other, then swap operating areas when it gets hot.

Instead they should fix NPC factions so that PKers can't abuse them.
It's quite annoying to kill some random PKs and get vilified in VC for it, even if you do it near San Francisco.

[The DUDE]

People get angry when they lose, 'nough said. 

[Badger]

People get angry when they lose, 'nough said. 

People get angry when they lose without having had a chance of winning.

[Keldorn]

As someone above said.  Raiders do what they do out of desperation or the in-ability to cope with civilisation.  Since they are not usually skilled or very bright (hence not much to contribute to society), they make their living the only way they know how.  Even without civilisations "laws", being a raider is not taken lightly.  Raider chiefs still utilize skills such as diplomacy and hedging.  Killing for the "LULZ" is stupid since raiders risk supplies for personal amusement.  Look at some of histories "raiders", Ghengis Kahn, Edward Teach, Pablo Escobar, Vlad Tepes, Milosevic, Aidid and Idi Amin.  These guys all have earned their crazy label but yet there was a method to their madness.

Or a much simpler explanation:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e07-fatbeard 18:33

With Full Loot Drop, people try to find the cheapest and quickest way to kill others with the least amount of risk.  This doesn't contribute to the game in regards to testing or competition.  Its a few folks who are bored yet have the powerful ability to ruin the game for substantially more people.

[AphexTwin]

As someone above said.  Raiders do what they do out of desperation or the in-ability to cope with civilisation.  Since they are not usually skilled or very bright (hence not much to contribute to society), they make their living the only way they know how.  Even without civilisations "laws", being a raider is not taken lightly.  Raider chiefs still utilize skills such as diplomacy and hedging.  Killing for the "LULZ" is stupid since raiders risk supplies for personal amusement.  Look at some of histories "raiders", Ghengis Kahn, Edward Teach, Pablo Escobar, Vlad Tepes, Milosevic, Aidid and Idi Amin.  These guys all have earned their crazy label but yet there was a method to their madness.

Or a much simpler explanation:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e07-fatbeard 18:33

With Full Loot Drop, people try to find the cheapest and quickest way to kill others with the least amount of risk.  This doesn't contribute to the game in regards to testing or competition.  Its a few folks who are bored yet have the powerful ability to ruin the game for substantially more people.

I never once dreamed that anyone would be able to link a South Park episode in a debate concerning FOnline 

[LeonTheNorse]

It`s after all just a game, and by that it is like real life some are assholes some are kind.

To be honest i dont get this whole debate. It`s for (it`s the way I see it) good verus evil.

the game needs a balance with evil and so called good, some laugh when killing a level 1, some help try to help that same level 1.

In order to  have at least in my eyes a game based on fallout you need both. I might be wrong, but i like it myself that some "act" as raiders.

It gives balance, at weird as it might sound i like it. Because it gives me as an "apk" something towards agaisnt.

It gives me as an "apk" something to do. And in the end it`s just a game, so have fun 

Sorry for the long rant^^

(Looking forward to much pvp next season from rda\bbs,Cs,Dow and so on)