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[Avoral]

I know that there is "greater plan" behind the curtain about some major changes that are awaiting in near soon version of future.

I would like to talk about "skills". When perks and hp stays on 21 lvl, why the skills cant go on? New lvl, more skills and so on... From the bright side, we would have a purpse for staying on the same character, making him more and more skilledm fanous and maby creating a legend of him as the time goes by. From the dark side we would have a battle chars with 300% skills in sg/bg/ew/meele/unarmed/throwning/sneak/steal or just uber crafter that would be able to craft anything and do a trading duty.

Looking forward, thanks to such character, there would be less accounts, and bans will hurt much more becouse of the time that user must have spended on this "main" character.
Playing a skilled character i was able to get 2x skills on 200% with 21 lvls [they were my tagged ones] so to get some other skills on 200% i would need at last another 20 lvls [my calculations might be wrong but it would be at last 10 lvls]. So the option of master [300%] skills would be achivedable only for determined players.

All of us know that guys who want to have alts, will have alts. That would be only an "other" way, and since there are [or better say might be] a change due crafting system... it might be worthy to give a chance to this idea.

Thats all, waiting for your "i like it" or "i think its a shitty idea". ;]

[Archaeon_dude]

I like it. It matches the color of my bruised knuckles and it isn't very heavy.

[None]

Or make it oblivionish after you'll reach level cap, with slow raising your skills when used and the higher the skill is the slower you'll get another 1% into it.

[LagMaster]

no, max level is 21

[Reginmund]

Or make it oblivionish after you'll reach level cap, with slow raising your skills when used and the higher the skill is the slower you'll get another 1% into it.

Seriously if everyone is going to jump on this bandwagon of getting more skill after reaching level cap, may as well make it deteriorate too so you can go ahead and achieve your extra skill level but it wont last.

I know that there is "greater plan" behind the curtain about some major changes that are awaiting in near soon version of future.

I would like to talk about "skills". When perks and hp stays on 21 lvl, why the skills cant go on? New lvl, more skills and so on... From the bright side, we would have a purpse for staying on the same character, making him more and more skilledm fanous and maby creating a legend of him as the time goes by. From the dark side we would have a battle chars with 300% skills in sg/bg/ew/meele/unarmed/throwning/sneak/steal or just uber crafter that would be able to craft anything and do a trading duty.

Looking forward, thanks to such character, there would be less accounts, and bans will hurt much more becouse of the time that user must have spended on this "main" character.
Playing a skilled character i was able to get 2x skills on 200% with 21 lvls [they were my tagged ones] so to get some other skills on 200% i would need at last another 20 lvls [my calculations might be wrong but it would be at last 10 lvls]. So the option of master [300%] skills would be achivedable only for determined players.

All of us know that guys who want to have alts, will have alts. That would be only an "other" way, and since there are [or better say might be] a change due crafting system... it might be worthy to give a chance to this idea.

Thats all, waiting for your "i like it" or "i think its a shitty idea". ;]

I will be super doctor, kill myself and revive a minute later to get more exp. It would be boring to do but hey the option is now there under this suggestion.

[Johnnybravo]

Because people would just move Int to En and do a little more grind...

[avv]

Players would spend all their time grinding those skills to the higher level. When they had finished grinding one char, they'd grind another with differend SPECIAl and perks.

[Archaeon_dude]

In the original, as you became of higher level and had higher skills, the use of these would provide less experience. So Überdoctor over there would not make much of his skills. As you became a level #absurd in FO2 the source ob XP would start to be mainly questing, and if you wanted to crank it up summore, you'd prob'ly hafta spend ages killing mean centaurs and the like.

Character increasing skills and level after lvl21 would drive interests towards questing. Multiple player cooperation to achieve certain goals. This is GREAT. And if you got something against the overpowering sorts, you can implement a post 21 penalty. Such as losing precious XP (maybe even the skills and perks related to 'em), not much, but a tasty bit of it.

If you don't like it, go smell a wanamingo's ovipositor.

[Cocain]

imo character creation should be abolished from this game becouse it limits the direction of your character, the fact is persons make mistakes,learn and change their minds, a character should be able to morph to its player desire

special points should be allocated in game, example: each char as 20 points( random number) to distribuit to the special points as the player wishes, like:

str 7
end 5
char 4
int 2
ag 4
lk 4

each char starts the game with 1 point in each, this points would grow as the player preforme a particular task: Str would increase by making damage, end would increase by taking damage, char by talking to npcs, agility by using ap, luck by gambling... this are just examples...

anyway the diference should be that this points you distribuited wouldnt be permanent, u could increase or decrease points in special points according to your needs.. hope u get the right idead

the problem would be that skill points system would get screwed, but its my opinion that skill points system is not the way to go in a mmorpg

skill points system would also had to be adapted in a similiar way like my 1st idea, for example:

each player as 500 (random number) skill points to distribuit as they please, this skills would increase as before, by particulay actions, and like before this points wouldnt be permant, u could add or subtract according to your needs

the skill cap should never be more than 50% of the numbers of skill available, so extra chars would be necessary for you to create to do everything you need in game like traders and other non fighter builds, but in terms of combat builds u could change if u get bored with a particulary skill without being forced to create another char from scratch...

to keep inteligence as a special skill you could add 10 to skill cap for each point you put in intelligence, so someone with 10 int would get a 600 skill cap compared to someone with only 1 (510)

perks should be teached by npcs in exchange for caps, the higher the "level" of the perk the more money it cost and you could only learn x number of times like only 2 lifegivers like its already the case, perk system would virtualy be the same. perks could also be unlearned to make space for other perks that might interest you.. also this would make easier for gms since if some perk get able\inabled players could change them by caps without the frustration of having to creat a whole new char.

if you still dont understand my idead very well u can get information from ultima online, thats the system im refering to

again i would like to remind you that this is only my opinion

[Wichura]

Still don't get it, do you?

Most of suggestions can be rejected by "it will be abusable by alts" argument. However any suggestion to lower alts number is also rejected. Feel like a hamster in a wheel? :>

Players would spend all their time grinding those skills to the higher level. When they had finished grinding one char, they'd grind another with differend SPECIAl and perks.

This is in all MMO. Grinders and no-lifers spend more time in-game than casual players, so they get advantages.

[Badger]

This is in all MMO. Grinders and no-lifers spend more time in-game than casual players, so they get advantages.

I hate alts, but I think the only way to control them is to legitimise them. Like drugs - if people want them, they're going to find ways to get them. By letting them exist, you can limit how useful an alt is.

Take crafting. Hardly anybody seems to craft on their main character, and that's because crafting requires a dedicated character. I know crafting is being reworked, but it really has to be done in a way that makes alting less appealing. It really, really needs to be streamlined and made into something every player does. If you can't encourage most players to craft without making an alt for it, it's not a good crafting system. Simple as that.

If you made it so there was no real advantage to having an alt, and crafting didn't gimp your combat capabilities, people would do it. Make the professions give respectable combat bonuses. Make it so they only require their base skill and one other. Gunsmith = Small Guns + Repair. Energy Weapons = Energy Weapons + Science. Nobody likes being forced to spread their character thin, or be forced to take skills they don't want.

I would even suggest that crafting skills exist independently of the Skill system. Then you level up your crafting ability by crafting, with no skill or SPECIAL requirements. Then everyone can do it, and there's no reason to alt as it doesn't detract from your skills in other areas. But that would make a lot of skills a useless, and so I accept that's not a practical solution.

And a lot of games do find ways to circumvent the grinder vs average player. I think more tightly controlled fighting situations would minimise the advantage you can get by grinding. hat's why most games, not just MMOs, enforce balanced teams. If you could win Team Fortress by just getting all your friends to join and swamping the enemy, it would be justifiably regarded as terrible.

So yeah. Allow alts, but then discourage them by simplifying crafting. Make grinding less useful by creating more 'fixed' combat scenarios. I realise both may be on the way in some form.

[Solar]

That's untrue. The specific idea to reduce alts can be unworkable without the principle being bad.

The difficulty comes in that if you just increase potential you end up with clone chars everywhere as they are able to do everything. You can increase skill points and rather than diversify their char with the extra freedom, people will take the smaller boost to combat potential - and the gap between "normal" chars and a power build just increases.

Hopefully we have something in mind which will allow you to have extra skills/perks available in the traditionally alted skills, but also allowing you to build "normal" chars with the same potential as power builds too - at the same time as significantly increasing the char types that are viable.

Incidentally, we are trying to do so without completely obliterating SPECIAL and making it unrecognisable as a Fallout char system.

[RavenousRat]

That's untrue. The specific idea to reduce alts can be unworkable without the principle being bad.

The difficulty comes in that if you just increase potential you end up with clone chars everywhere as they are able to do everything. You can increase skill points and rather than diversify their char with the extra freedom, people will take the smaller boost to combat potential - and the gap between "normal" chars and a power build just increases.

Hopefully we have something in mind which will allow you to have extra skills/perks available in the traditionally alted skills, but also allowing you to build "normal" chars with the same potential as power builds too - at the same time as significantly increasing the char types that are viable.

Incidentally, we are trying to do so without completely obliterating SPECIAL and making it unrecognisable as a Fallout char system.

What will be the difference? If everyone will craft everything, nothing will be changed, except for relogging on crafter alt. Main character will play role of main+crafter, that's all. Or just make crafters to have some advantage with thier items, that would explain why someone should spend points on science and repair, because why someone should waste points there? He'll dismantle enemy with science or what? This character will be useless in combat, or atleast less effective. It means that normal human will make separate characters to kill things and to craft items. Just make blueprints for every item possible, and let everyone to craft everything, slow down XP income for crafting and killing and allow to reset character once per real life 2 weeks, instead of making other character, if player is bored with one type build and want to be another. So, there will be alts only for dual/multi logging, because no more use for them.
And no, they won't look like clones, they will looks like now. Repairmen and scientists aren't going to kill people anyway, they are just making things, so why don't combine normal characters who are able to kill and those useless crafters into one character? Make quest/NPC faction rank/whatever requirement for crafting, but not skills.

[avv]

This is in all MMO. Grinders and no-lifers spend more time in-game than casual players, so they get advantages.

It's not matter of time, but how you spend your time. It wouldn't be good for player interaction and the MMO concept if everyone was hunting centaurs in death walley or crafting alone inside their base. Or doing whatever repetitive task it takes to gain more xp or wealth - alone. Surely there are people who want to do just that, but in my opinion they have chosen a wrong game.

[Solar]

It will work by having soft skills perks not come out of the normal perk allowance, the current mood is to have the achievable in game, rather than as a seperate perk system. So when you had 45% outdoors (or whatever) you would go to the NPC who started the quest to unlock Pathfinder. You would then be limited to X number of these support perks - as you would be in an alternative perk system - and the perks that really increase performance in certain tasks would be kept until later on/harder quests.

This way, if you want someone really efficient at repairing (I hate current repair, but its just an example) then you have to invest time into developing that char ... at which point you just have a second main char and might aswell have put it onto your main anyway.

Crafting will be made a lot more free, I still don't really want the one person crafting the best items of each branch on his own (ideally really good stuff should be more rare than it is now anyway), I expect that will be controlled by skill/perk requirements on the specific blueprints, but the middle stuff will be easier for one person to make.


At the end of the day though, people will always be able to make multiple chars, its just matter of making it harder to make useless at everything, but great at one task chars in 30 mins. It should also be less of a disadvantage to remaining on 1 char.