Author Topic: Armors and clothing  (Read 242813 times)

Offline jonny rust

  • Caravan Dan
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #570 on: September 12, 2011, 06:19:29 pm »
ahhhh ok, I got ya.
Perhaps we should make a sticky out of that explanation, as well as a downloadable color-coded subset UV map so we can make sure that our textures fit the system.

As for the V-neck, it might need to be implemented for males as well since the grey San Fran male clothing also has a V-Neck. 

So, I will probably need to retexture a few models slightly, maybe reshape them a little and then chop them up to fit the subsets. should be no big deal but when I do it I want to make sure I do it right. cookie cutter UV map please! :)   
     

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #571 on: September 12, 2011, 06:57:04 pm »
I'd maybe check with Karpov / Graf / some of the other 3D folks, as they may have found a good alternative or compromise to this. I know the "v neck" thing was mentioned previously (possibly in the back of the female leather armour?). The stuff about the subsets and layers etc should be correct though - just my suggested "solutions" might not be the best ones.

You are right though, writing up a few sticky / tutorial type things would be a very good idea - just need to make sure all the info is correct first - and maybe draw them in a slightly less confusing and messy manner :)

Offline jonny rust

  • Caravan Dan
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #572 on: September 12, 2011, 07:02:52 pm »
I'd maybe check with Karpov / Graf / some of the other 3D folks, as they may have found a good alternative or compromise to this. I know the "v neck" thing was mentioned previously (possibly in the back of the female leather armour?). The stuff about the subsets and layers etc should be correct though - just my suggested "solutions" might not be the best ones.

You are right though, writing up a few sticky / tutorial type things would be a very good idea - just need to make sure all the info is correct first - and maybe draw them in a slightly less confusing and messy manner :)

Your diagram makes perfect sense. The only problem is that it's difficult to see exactly where the division is between subsets (and it should be an exact science), thats why I suggest universalizing it with a 'guide' UV map, so we can all see exactly where each subset starts and ends while we are working and all resulting material could be compatible with a universal scheme.

But if this isn't the status quo just yet then we should all agree on something before too much more work is done to save everyone from a collective headache. 
     

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #573 on: September 12, 2011, 08:21:08 pm »
Put these together for you (and everyone else, I guess):

Here's rough outlines on the models :


Subset Texture Map Male :


1024x1024 layered PSD file, with outline, colour markers and base texture (~4.5MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UNFDE0X5

Subset Texture Map Female :


1024x1024 layered PSD file, with outline, colour markers and base texture (~3.5MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LE67YPWG

If you've got Photoshop or Gimp, you should be able to take those "outline layers" to turn on or off, which should help with any texturing (though you've done a marvellous job already without).

I believe this stuff will be staying the same for the time being - it's what's been used for everything so far. If we do add another subset / change anything, then obviously people will know about it. Unless we hear otherwise, consider these diagrams to be "almost official" ;)

Offline jonny rust

  • Caravan Dan
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #574 on: September 12, 2011, 08:49:31 pm »
Awesome, thanks Luther! I'll reference these against what I have done so far.

So I'm wondering now - I'f I were to reshape the knee so that the original edge that marked the start of subset 3 ends up being lower than it started off (while keeping the UV relatively intact), that would cause problems right?

But if my design encompassed all three leg subsets then perhaps there wouldn't be an issue since they all fit together and don't need to be interchanged with other meshes/textures.

basically i'm wondering if the edges that mark subset boundaries need to be anchored in order for this to work properly
     

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #575 on: September 12, 2011, 10:38:21 pm »
So I'm wondering now - I'f I were to reshape the knee so that the original edge that marked the start of subset 3 ends up being lower than it started off (while keeping the UV relatively intact), that would cause problems right?

Shouldn't do. Generally speaking, the only time you need to worry about the subsets if if there are parts of cloth and parts of visible skin. For most this is simply the head (9) and hands (5).

But if my design encompassed all three leg subsets then perhaps there wouldn't be an issue since they all fit together and don't need to be interchanged with other meshes/textures.

This is correct - if you have long trousers, for example 6, 7, 3, 8 you don't need to worry about the subsets. If you want shorter trousers, then you should cut them off at either the bottom of 3, or the bottom of 8.

For shirts, they'll either cover the body (1), short sleeve (0) and long sleeve (2). or you can cut them off at the bottom of 0 (for short sleeved tshirt) or at the edge of 1 (for a 'vest' type top).

If you look at the model shots - each of those coloured blocks can be told to be a) lower skin texture or b) upper clothing texture. It is symmetrical, so we cannot have one sleeve missing through this method. If anything needs to "cut halfway" on the model, i.e. one sleeve missing, or an open shirt with chest showing, this would need to be made on an attached model, otherwise we have problems with the base skin colours.

On the San Fran woman texture, this would mean that her sleeves are too long, or too short - so they'd have to stop at either the end of "0" or go all the way to the wrist. The trousers would need to either go all the way to the ankle, or move up to the bottom of the knee. The shirt would need the "v neck" removing.

The problem here of course is that your texture is actually correct when compared to the original - there aren't the correct subsets which stop at the right place. Also I've just noticed the female Vault Suit has this "v neck" problem too :(

I don't know what the best solution is really - as I said - the sleeves / trousers length you have done is correct, but not compatible with the skin colour changing.

I think my personal preference (if possible) would be to add a a few extra subsets to the model - ideally another sleeve length "San Fran sleeves", a "v neck" front and a "leather armour back". I THINK that would cover the remaining models closely enough. Skirts would have to be modelled anyway.


- Leather armour back has this problem - though this could be fairly easily solved by making the back section part of the armour model.


- We'd have to pick one of these "V neck" styles and use it for all three models.

As far as I can tell, assigning extra subsets would mean applying a new material to certain faces on the original model, and naming it correctly - but I don't know if there's anything more that needs to be done to make this work in-game properly i.e. if there's an engine limit on the subsets or anything.

If this is possible, perhaps adding such things (roughly) round here would help us out?

(very rough version, but this wouldn't involve changing the phyisical elements of the model - just the material locations)

Offline jonny rust

  • Caravan Dan
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #576 on: September 12, 2011, 11:09:01 pm »
her arm band could be an issue to.

Also any casual shoes (most expose skin)


As for now I need to teach myself how to separate my models properly. Does the inside need to be textured?
     

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #577 on: September 13, 2011, 01:50:24 am »
All of it should be textured, but you can chuck any "rogue" bits in the corner of the UV map and make them tiny :)

Note that you can "intesect" the main model with solid shapes - so the arm band could be a cylinder - it wouldn't need to have a hole cut through it - see this test tribal model for example - not the most beautiful piece of work ever - but I tested it and it worked (note that the image there is from before the shaders had been worked on - it would look much better now).

Didn't spot those shoes, but yes - you're right - same stuff would need thinking about.

Offline Lexx

  • Rotator
  • Mexican Apple Thief
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #578 on: September 13, 2011, 10:36:12 am »
Randomly thrown in: I see lots of valuable information in here. It would be good if someone could write that down in the wiki, so it can be found and re-linked to faster. It would be bad to let it go under in forum threads.

Offline Cold_Fusion

  • Energy Weapons Maniac
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #579 on: September 13, 2011, 11:00:55 am »
I got no idea why are you all into that V on female Leather Armor, when its clearly \_/

Its just using zoom blurs everything into unrecognizable pulp.
-= It was the cleansing of the planet. The inattention by those who came before caused the holy fires. It was justice. =-


Offline jonny rust

  • Caravan Dan
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #580 on: September 13, 2011, 05:54:23 pm »
I got no idea why are you all into that V on female Leather Armor, when its clearly \_/

thank god your here...


One more question for you Luther;

do I need to separate pants from shirt or can they be part of the same mesh just as 3 pants subsets can be part of the same mesh?
     

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #581 on: September 13, 2011, 07:46:50 pm »
If you mean in the texturing, put all the clothing parts you need on the same texture - the leather jacket one in the example doesn't actually wear a shirt - but if it did, it would have been on the same texture, and the subsets would just say to include it. Note that you could actually direct a clothing layer to point at many files through the _FOHuman.fo3d file - so you could say to use the legs from one texture and the shirt from another.

If you mean in mesh as in 3D model, shirt and trousers could be in the same .obj file, but it's a bit easier to rig if they're separate objects within that file. If the legs or shirt are going to be identical to the base model, then just do them via a texture.

[edit]
Randomly thrown in: I see lots of valuable information in here. It would be good if someone could write that down in the wiki, so it can be found and re-linked to faster. It would be bad to let it go under in forum threads.

Good point. Much easier to write something up once and properly and link to it, than to rewrite it all next time someone asks same things. Are there any volunteers with wiki access willing to do this, or should I look at getting access and doing it myself at some point?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 07:54:05 pm by Luther Blissett »

Offline jonny rust

  • Caravan Dan
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #582 on: September 13, 2011, 08:17:47 pm »
Good point. Much easier to write something up once and properly and link to it, than to rewrite it all next time someone asks same things. Are there any volunteers with wiki access willing to do this, or should I look at getting access and doing it myself at some point?

I guess I'll guinea pig the FAQ's ;)
     

Offline Graf

  • Moderator
  • "Next Day" developer
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #583 on: September 13, 2011, 08:49:08 pm »
Are there any volunteers with wiki access willing to do this, or should I look at getting access and doing it myself at some point?

I can do that, but without of deep understanding how all that stuff actually works, I may write something that is quite far from the reality. The best option is to  give you an access to the wiki and/or to the 3d sub-forum moderation. Though, it's all are up to developers, as usually.

Offline Lexx

  • Rotator
  • Mexican Apple Thief
Re: Armors and clothing
« Reply #584 on: September 13, 2011, 09:48:44 pm »
Create an account on the wiki and we can give the needed editing rights.