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[avv]

When we have had a good few weeks under the new system it will be worth discussing again, as there are bound to be some tweaks needed.

There’s going to be a lot of variables which will be different and its impossible to guess at the overall effect.

Yes this is what we should do. Wait for wipe, play with the new settings and then come back discussing, if necessary.

[Vaimortal]

Are u trying to tell me that Sg. allways used to be overpowered and  Crits were as eazy to make, and without auto aim small guns had huge chances??
I havent played for a year and half, but small gunners were never able to kill a bg in pvp only if it was a noob, or if the sniper was very pro and very lucky. It was a waste of time to be SG, and maybe every third faction member leveld one up. Now i see more small gunners in factions i see more snipers and i am happy. Yes maybe there should be a better balance since having auto aim is just amazingly easy and fast. Before u had to hope the bg didnt see you and burst u u had to have crazy Perception and be amazingly fast in the aiming process. so saying that SG mostly beats BG is fuckin howls man...

So if you see alot of SG and less BG makes you happy.
You say BG needs balance against SG.
But you don't agree that SG mostly beats BG.
You are pointing out SG and BG balance two wipes ago.
Were not talking about the past.

You don't fucking make any sense !
I have only one question for you !
Are you completely retarded ?

[Badger]

What are the other guns that aren't really used in PvP? Shotguns, assault rifles, pistols (except the .223), what else? Anyone had any brainwaves in that department? I'm interested because of what it says these guns are lacking - whether they're too hard to craft, not powerful enough, the ammo's too laborious to craft, whatever.

[Johnnybravo]

They are usualy lacking in range, and when compared to SMGs they are not powerful enough.

post wipe you will have defense perks against crits and armour will defend you a bit too.

Sad panda when looking at metal armors with my lasers :<

[Solar]

Jackhammer / p90c with 2 BRD.


None   1.007373645
LJ   1.110011714
LA   1.127373418
LA2   1.174565793
CLJ   1.115709185
M   1.149621183
M2   1.140067841
Tesla   1.065956029
CA   1.072226359
CA2   1.094564408
BCA   1.005212211


Nothing is to say Armours will be the same stats.

[pistacja]

Jackhammer / p90c with 2 BRD.


None   1.007373645
LJ   1.110011714
LA   1.127373418
LA2   1.174565793
CLJ   1.115709185
M   1.149621183
M2   1.140067841
Tesla   1.065956029
CA   1.072226359
CA2   1.094564408
BCA   1.005212211


Nothing is to say Armours will be the same stats.

1x burst? 2x burst? Single shot? 10mm AP or JHP?

If Jackhammer does more or less the same damage as p90, then p90 is still better with almost twice the range (25-30 vs 16) and 1 AP less to use.   

[Solar]

Its averaged over 10 AP and with the p90c using the best ammo in each situation.

I would suggest that a general 10->15% advantage was actually pretty good.

[RavenousRat]

1x burst? 2x burst? Single shot? 10mm AP or JHP?

Ask also if point blank ^_^
then you'll see jackhammer/p90:
~0.3 everywhere

Of couse jackhammer isn't that bad at >1 hex, but also it's useless in point blank, if you're going to shoot at >1 hex and low range (jackhammer), I think you better you plasma or .223 pistol. Of couse you don't need BRD perks with jackhammer, so you can take lotsa LGs, anti-crit perks and other stuff, so jackhammer, probably, will be the best choice for pure tanks, who afraid/don't want to go in point blank for some reason.

[Astarot]

I think the nerf of critical isn't a good idea and very difficult to balance... So, i'm sure that after the balance, lot of people post and cry ( my sniper is shit, my EW is shit... ) and we will see only BG in PVP fight...

But I want to see and test, and I applaude if the work be perfect. ^^

[Johnnybravo]

I think the nerf of critical isn't a good idea and very difficult to balance... So, i'm sure that after the balance, lot of people post and cry ( my sniper is shit, my EW is shit... ) and we will see only BG in PVP fight...

But I want to see and test, and I applaude if the work be perfect. ^^

If for example, Laser Rifle is going to do somewhat less steady damage, game won't break and might be just a little more fun. Right now it's all about doing either minimal damage like 10-15 or huge damage like 120-150, that's not really much exciting.
I'd personaly prefer crit mods reducing crippling and damage mod effects instead of critical chance itself, while also providing less extreme protections ( ofcourse not in case of the best power armors )).
But if we recieved scaling crit reduction (more on eyes and head, less on torso) it might be balanced as well, but still somewhat spiky.

I would suggest that a general 10->15% advantage was actually pretty good.

There is still problem with range and ST/Hand requirements. P90 can benefit from single-handed and etc. It is obvious, because it's rare event to meet a guy with this thing, even though it's craftable.

.. So, i'm sure that after the balance, lot of people post and cry

Unconstructive feedback is always expectable every time major component is changed, there's nothing wrong about that.

[Solar]

Well Jackhammers and p90cs are better at different things. Jackhammers will also be cheaper to run and maintain - and as has been said, should be more flexible in which perks you can take with them. Different weapons should always be able to be comparaed with X is better here and Y is better for this, else we get a very generic system.

I'd personaly prefer crit mods reducing crippling and damage mod effects instead of critical chance itself, while also providing less extreme protections ( ofcourse not in case of the best power armors )).
But if we recieved scaling crit reduction (more on eyes and head, less on torso) it might be balanced as well, but still somewhat spiky.

Reducing crits effects is how perks will work, armour will reduce the chance. You will also have a kind of scaling in that helmets will have a CM bonus, so you will have 3 different values if you are in armour, Head shot (incl eyes), Body shot (Torso, Arms, Groin) and then Legs.


All I hope for is some useful stuff along with the usual "You broke my favourite weapon!!!11" posts.

[Crazy]

values if you are in armour, Head shot (incl eyes), Body shot (Torso, Arms, Groin) and then Legs.

Aren't leg protected by CA?

Btw, about critical hit: I always thougt that boosting leg crit chance at same level than arm, and groin at same level than head would be good (with the same aim penalty too ofc), like it would allow really to choose what effect you want to have more than just "eyes or arm" (foe, if groin crit table was better than head one, aiming at eyes when the ennemy show his back would be less effective than aim his groin).

All I hope for is some useful stuff along with the usual "You broke my favourite weapon!!!11" posts. Wink

These post have a reason to exist ! Though not all of them are right/usefull, sure.


Btw, could we hope some intense CBT  with many hot fixes and hot testing before the wipe to begin with a better session faster?

[Solar]

I imagine there will be some variety of CBT, though I expect it will be more to find bugs rather than anything balance related.

As I say, there will be lots of changes: Weapons, Armours, Perks, Crafting, Repair, Encounters - I will only begin paying attention to opinions on balance after a good few weeks.

[Crazy]

I will only begin paying attention to opinions on balance after a good few weeks.

[Solar]

It will give time for all the whines to synchronise :p. But without a few weeks of the new system I will doubt how much of everything has been properly tested - so complaints about one thing might have a natural counter elsewhere which will be discovered in time.