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[Linnea]

Exactly, so decreasing drugs (jet) + fast shot + Avenger dmg and making RLs so fucking easy to get, makes it wrong.

[Doctor Eex]

Increase AP cost on RL?

[manero]

Increase AP cost on RL?

Why? Because RL is powerfull? It is not. It is just good weapon.

[Linnea]

Just increase Avenger armor piercing dmg:) make it a Tier 3 weapon, and add it in hinkley too:)

[Doctor Eex]

Why? Because RL is powerfull? It is not. It is just good weapon.

Because it is kinda BG sniper rifle as it is now.

[manero]

Because it is kinda BG sniper rifle as it is now.

If u add possibility to shot eyes for RL why not. Got another stupid idea? Maximum critical chance for big gunner is 25% and for sniper eyeshot 95%. Its hard to say bazooka is some kind of sniper rifle.

[avv]

Let's wave the damages and ranges back and forth

So far this hasn't helped much. Turning damages up and down is what's been done past year and no actual meaningful progress has been made.

If u add possibility to shot eyes for RL why not. Got another stupid idea? Maximum critical chance for big gunner is 25% and for sniper eyeshot 95%. Its hard to say bazooka is some kind of sniper rifle.

It has the similar benefits as sniper: high spike damage, long range and unmodified damage over range. Current playstyle favours this kind of damage output since there's basically no drawbacks.

There could be two new forms of attack: hip shot and aimed shot. Snipers and single shot guns had to be aimed for max accuracy, which would take about equal time it takes to regen 2-3 aps, less for lighter guns like pistols, more for plasma rifles, rockets and scoped weapons. Otherwise they suffer serious unmodifiend accuracy penalty. Burst fire guns could be fired from the hip instantly, and due to burst fire, with better accuracy.

[drypoothe]

increasing the RL dmg would power up the RL tank builds even more, thats not needed.
Thing with RL is the free shot, if you have friends with RLs too it means multiple free shots, got enough friends with RLs free shots turns to free kills.
What should be done is making it harder to craft the rockets, or farm, because now you can either farm in 1 hour on piss easy unity or masters,
or make a steal character, join and rob BOS patrols. Thats pretty bad, and lame

Ye, let's make it so BG are forced to save every bullet for weeks and then lose it in 2 bursts! That would rock!

Extremely high cooldowns for HQ stuff (plus the fact that it's on unguarded mines) makes people give up of crafting

[Rascal]

proper sniper build gots 12 PE so u can see ur enemy a lot earlier than he would enter to ur range - therefore u can easilly prepare to shoot him just right in the moment he reachs it. Rocket Launhcer gots 40 range - 10 less than sniper rifle (no whining about that but u have to understand its fucking a lot!) and u can see ur enemy just right he enters ur range. With autoaim snipers are killing machines (almost every shoot is critical,  dmg highly over 100hp + cripple/KO/KD). Bazooka guy gots low dmg and crits rate is 1 time for every 5 shoots. The ONLY thing thats saves Bazooka as a gun at all is splash dmg + Knocdown power - buts still against proper line of snipers....
BG class is nerfed as hell, burst BG guns are almost usless now.
I would rather want that bazooka will be transfered to tier3 guns, be hard to obtain and rockets also but for god sake lets make it a powerfull weapon. 35minimal damage is a joke.

[kttdestroyer]

In my opinion:

Avenger is ok, could use some more damage though (just little more) or/and maybe more special attack of it, which is damage to multiply enemies in line of fire, maybe give the bullets a chance to by pass enemy and hit the ones behind aswell, the point would be to decrease the damage reduction when spreading it across multiply targets.

Stonewall is not as good as it sounds.

RL builds are no great match for Snipers. Acually, snipers are good against everything exept storming buildings (they can still snipe em from outside so they dont really need to storm them).

Changes i would think about:

Decrease line damage of avenger penalty, and maybe boost damage a little (just little) bit overally.

Make stonewall perk block half or 2/3 of knockdowns (really block them, not just give higher chance to block them). And either reduce the time beign knockdown when having a stonewall perk, or improve the Quick Recover perk a lot (maybe all knockouts turn into knockdowns OR lasts only 1-2 seconds).

Make the sniper injuries have diffrent levels (like suggested before).

An idea could be also, to make defense luck (defence against crittical hits) to work as bounded with Endurence. Meaning, if a char has 4 Endurence and 10 Luck, he only recaives 4 luck towards defence, if a char has 8 Endurence and 10 luck, he recaives 8 luck for defence, if a char has 10 endurence and 6 luck, he recaives 6 luck for defence.

Well, some ideas.

[avv]

proper sniper build gots 12 PE so u can see ur enemy a lot earlier than he would enter to ur range - therefore u can easilly prepare to shoot him just right in the moment he reachs it.

Even this out by allowing everyone to see more in the front and less to the sides and back? Pe would then affect more long range shooting. This way everyone could try to spot snipers from afar and avoid them, but suffer from not looking around enough. It would make flanking enemies more easier.

Rocket Launhcer gots 40 range - 10 less than sniper rifle (no whining about that but u have to understand its fucking a lot!) and u can see ur enemy just right he enters ur range. With autoaim snipers are killing machines (almost every shoot is critical,  dmg highly over 100hp + cripple/KO/KD).

Problem? Instant shot release, too build-dependent accuracies and too random cripple effects. I'd gladly trade random and powerful crits to more reliable crits with less power. Shoot in the arm: get expected result, not either 1,5x damage, weapon drop, cripple&bypass or no crit.

Avenger is ok, could use some more damage though (just little more) or/and maybe more special attack of it, which is damage to multiply enemies in line of fire, maybe give the bullets a chance to by pass enemy and hit the ones behind aswell, the point would be to decrease the damage reduction when spreading it across multiply targets.

Excuse me sir. Avenger instarapes everything that doesn't have BA or MAmkII with toughness and psycho. If someone wears BA or has invested in defensive perks and drugs he deserves at least some benefits out of them. Besides, pvp shouldn't be balanced around 3rd tier weapons. 

RL builds are no great match for Snipers. Acually, snipers are good against everything exept storming buildings (they can still snipe em from outside so they dont really need to storm them).

Problem: buildings don't offer real defensive bonuses. If you think about it, a guy standing behind a window that covers 60% of his body should have more chances to not to get hit than the guy standing in open ground outside the building.

Decrease line damage of avenger penalty, and maybe boost damage a little (just little) bit overally.

What's avenger supposed to do anyway? If avenger is going to be the gun for rushing and basically everything that rocket doesn't do, what's the purpose of shotguns and smgs? Guns need roles, not all round versatility.

Make stonewall perk block half or 2/3 of knockdowns (really block them, not just give higher chance to block them). And either reduce the time beign knockdown when having a stonewall perk, or improve the Quick Recover perk a lot (maybe all knockouts turn into knockdowns OR lasts only 1-2 seconds).

I agree, the higher chance is just more randomity. Stonewall could actually work like this: immune to knockouts from the front. It would be sprearhead man's perk. Then again knockouts are pretty awful feature in first place. -20 aps is equal to instakill in most cases.

Make the sniper injuries have diffrent levels (like suggested before).

Yes, more predictability is a good idea.

[Eternauta]

Big Gun bursters should pwn easily, okay. But I think they should be slower. I can't understand why a minigunner can burst twice per round just like a guy with an assault rifle.

Avenger should make a lot of damage just like Manero said in his first posts (if not more), but the minigunner should be able to burst only once per round. An assault rifle should make less damage but burst twice per round. This way the minigunner would be powerful and dangerous, but would also require support from assault rifles dudes, or P90c, who would act quickly (three bursts against enemies at short range). This way Big Gun bursters and Small Gun bursters would have different roles and behaviour in combat. And we would see more people using some kind of assault rifle, which is a pretty basic weapon in real life armies.

[avv]

Big Gun bursters should pwn easily, okay. But I think they should be slower. I can't understand why a minigunner can burst twice per round just like a guy with an assault rifle.

Avenger should make a lot of damage just like Manero said in his first posts (if not more), but the minigunner should be able to burst only once per round. An assault rifle should make less damage but burst twice per round. This way the minigunner would be powerful and dangerous, but would also require support from assault rifles dudes, or P90c, who would act quickly (three bursts against enemies at short range). This way Big Gun bursters and Small Gun bursters would have different roles and behaviour in combat. And we would see more people using some kind of assault rifle, which is a pretty basic weapon in real life armies.

But the problem is that it's more useful to shoot one big damage blast than many small ones. If the one big shot kills, the dude who can burst many times doesn't even get the chance to use his fast attacks. And even if the one big blast doesn't kill, the shooter can hide and regen aps, thus most likely avoiding his enemy's fast shots and getting a chance to deliver another spike hit. That's the reason fast shotter suck, he spends too much time shooting and exposed.

In addition real time doesn't have "rounds". Just gathered total of aps that vary between builds (duh). A round for 8 ap dude is a bit differend than for 14 ap guy.

[spitfire182]

Right now one crit or 2 bursts from LSW have enough power to kill most of snipers. Rocket launcher is also good weapon and don't need any changes (maybe only to count RL + rocket AP as tier 2 weapon during TC). As you said avenger is now useless but instead of boosting avengers boost players holding avengers:
1. Give psycho +25% DR, -9PE and minus to critical chance - it will be useless to plasma snipers and LSW crit builds.
2. Change beer effect to those which have psycho right now.
3. Boost CA mk.II resistance on explode to 80-90% and nerf normal damage.
This way avenger build can be real tank with ultra-high resistance on one of damage type it depends of armor (BA, CA mk.II or Tesla) and high resistance on normal damage there is also a chance to make new type of build - plasma fast shooter. In my opinion there is no need to change Stonewall perk or critical effects caused by snipers.

[kttdestroyer]

What's avenger supposed to do anyway? If avenger is going to be the gun for rushing and basically everything that rocket doesn't do, what's the purpose of shotguns and smgs? Guns need roles, not all round versatility.

Yes, i think thats what Miniguns should focus on, this special line of fire feature, it could be extended maybe (right now the damage is split on targets more or less, so its not really a very usefull feature right now i think?). Like rockets got area of damage in their way. Shotguns got this potencial knockdown ability. SMGs could be quicker then miniguns... but that is not possible with "insta" combat so, i guess they will remain a lower class burst weapon forever, same with pistols, lower class sniper.