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Author Topic: Town Control  (Read 18141 times)

Surf

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2011, 12:31:47 am »

From my experience on private Ultima Online server it is to game master to create background and make animation who bring reason to the TC. This server need animator GM, for random activity on south, but for north fight to... It is ti them to create organisation with some goal and bring player tteam to join them. Of course those GM have to be recruting in player base...

So the game master should now "fix" your lack of creativity/boredom? I can safely assure you that none of the gamemasters will try to make some "animation" for this clusterfuck of TC fights.
Re: Town Control
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2011, 12:49:30 am »

So the game master should now "fix" your lack of creativity/boredom? I can safely assure you that none of the gamemasters will try to make some "animation" for this clusterfuck of TC fights.
Why not? Ok, call him TC-Master or whatever, who cares anyway. Some people who will play role of NCR army leader, BoS elder, raider leader, trappers leader, slavers' leader, VC leader, BH muties/humans leader, etc.
PC factions can be work like "people groups" or "people alliances" or "big parties", while main force can be NPC factions controlled by "GMs", who will organize TCs with some "atleast poor story", PC faction will join some NPC faction and take part in that TC for side of PC faction.
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Surf

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2011, 12:50:52 am »

Won't happen.
Re: Town Control
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2011, 12:54:57 am »

Won't happen.
Argh, and I even not telling about New Reno families and 24/7 slaughtering there because of 3 GMs from different families wanting to control New Reno parts!
So you don't want more player interaction and fun GM activity?
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Surf

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2011, 12:57:47 am »

So you don't want more player interaction and fun GM activity?

This all was tried out before (Reno Families for example) and failed due (who would guess?) the players sabotaging stuff, shooting random people for the lulz, calling quests/npc/etc "faggot shit" and so on. That's why I said no GM would have the patience and the nerves to do such a thing.

LeMark

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2011, 01:17:32 am »

Surf Solar I experience some realy nice RP server of Ultima Online with a LOT of PVP. But the PVP was make for some objectif and yes GM can do thing player cannot. You have to create a history, a background for this server, make some character with charisma, this character have to be play by GM etc... Do you have any experience of RP MMMO server? If yes without any "gm" help? If yes tell me I will try it ...
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Lexx

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2011, 02:04:22 am »

Of course those GM have to be recruting in player base...

Damnation. Now everything is clear-- We shouldn't have bought our GMs on eBay.


Also Surf Solar is right. We tried a lot GM influenced stuff already, but a lot (a lot? Most of it, if it wasn't nazi-controlled) failed because of players who want to ruin the fun for everyone. It's just how it is. Public events with lots of players don't work in a game where nobody is invincible. Doesn't matter if you write 10 lines of background for your GM character or 10 A4 pages, nobody is interested in such things.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 02:09:03 am by Lexx »
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Re: Town Control
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2011, 05:37:54 am »

Well, personally, i do believe a GM could be there, to "push" somethings. However, the server is somehow static, there is little dynamic "things" in game. So the game remains very simillar each day.

A town cannot be destroyed, they cannot grow. (They never change, TC in Modoc on friday, is same as TC in Modoc on tuesday)

There are little combat scenarios, as the tactics are pretty limited. (most often there are maybe 1-4 possible ways to attack, and even less to defend)

The battles overally are instant in practise, becouse of lack of firinig delay for weapons (as one of the things i believe causes this). The best fights last for maybe 20-30 minutes most of the times, and that is very seldom, and even then the acual fight takes few seconds (what takes most time is the organization parts).


Overally, in my opinion, a game CAN be made to have elements of "RP AND PVP" together in one, without GMs manipulating the world in real time towards the "RP PVP scenarios". But, the game must include this "seed" of RP in many elements of the game.

What i mean with that is, is if the players are very limited (not limited if compared to other games, but limited towards a perfect state then a lot for sure) in how they can manipulate the world, then there is little happening in the world, meaning the world doesint interact back at you (Peacekeepers take all towns, and what? nothing, North Bandits take them back, and what?). North Bandits attack NCR, and what? some guards die, 20 min later they respawn and nothing happend. What could be dynamic here, would be if each town had few states of economy (good, average,bad) and it would be affected by player actions, for exemple, as we now have wipes every once in a while, so one wipe maybe NCR would be very poor, (in poor state it would loose some buildings perhaps, and a lot beggards running around, and less guards etc), another wipe maybe it would become strong (and even take part in TC? if NCR player faction was to be included). Maybe epidemy strikes though some towns? Enclave air drop at Gecko? A bit too much, but the purpose is same.

The most RP-PVP elements we have are acually community based, but as we have learned, it is not possible to keep a town, unless peace with everyone (which eliminates the PVP from the RP-PVP). Also we have APK and PK, but after you kill same person 20 times in TC over and over it becomes pointless to find a reason behind killing this person. We got base looting, which is RP indeed in my opinion, mostly becouse some player DONT do it becouse of a choice they have made (however, in this decision is where the RP part in this ends here in my opinion), most of those things are very based on community and then game, not the otherway around. Another small thing we have is ability to kill merchants (merc merchants) and town leaders, which is good exemple on how the game can create scenarios (by player actions that effects the world which in turn affects him/another player back) for RP-PVP.

That counts also in random encounters (the caravans are way better then at first, when they pick up loot for exemple, a small thing, but interacts with player a lot more), random encounters could be even quests, some special mobs that are connected to other players (like, in one encounter, a player finds something, and in another encounter a diffrent player get asked by a npc he encounters to find the item the first player found)

A little of both, wouldint hurt  ::)
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avv

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2011, 08:41:09 am »

Well, personally, i do believe a GM could be there, to "push" somethings. However, the server is somehow static, there is little dynamic "things" in game. So the game remains very simillar each day.

Players cannot be allowed to affect the state of the wasteland as long as they don't share the same views as the npcs. Players do things for the lulz, excitement and interest, npcs do things to stay alive or uphold their society. So if lead was given to players, the world would be a smoking ruin pretty fast. Or there would be a giant penises or swastikas drawn everywhere with whatever materials it was possible to do. 
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Nice_Boat

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2011, 12:15:21 pm »

So the game master should now "fix" your lack of creativity/boredom? I can safely assure you that none of the gamemasters will try to make some "animation" for this clusterfuck of TC fights.

2238 is more or less competitive server - the only thing to do inside the game system aside from crafting/trading/exploring (which gets old fast) is town control. Ergo, by being hostile to TC you're being hostile to the most active part of the playerbase - recent TNB vs TPK battles were literally involving 50% of the server population in a single location on an almost daily basis. It happened without any GM support, so I don't see how you could accuse the players of lack of creativity if your endeavors as GMs weren't even close to being this popular aside from singular events like NA vs DA which, incidentally, were mostly also gang based.

Now, I could think of a thousand and one ideas on how to make this server even more lively with proactive, positive GM action based on general server "rules of physics" (instead of item spawning, free exp high HP Izual's NCR army, which was essentially "cheating", ie. free of limitations normal players had to overcome but still quite succesful and fun to encounter/fight against) - but I won't even bother seeing how you all seem to have enforcer mentality (ie. "we're here to punish" instead of "we're here to help with creating something") and lack any 2238-based experience in leading even a mildly succesful group of players. Just some really basic food for thought - an NPC faction doesn't require complex scripting, new framework etc. - it requires a GM leader (and I mean someone who is actually qualified and proven), a location (there are plenty already in), a carrot on a stick to make players want to join (custom skins, maybe some god tier items for faction leaders spawned every week/month) and a transparent set of rules to keep the rest of the server from yelling "that's cheap!" or "abuse!". How about a faction stylist GM to give the currently existing gangs a bit of a personal touch instead of the current copy/paste Combat Armor image? But to do that you'd have to have some love for both the game (and I mean the game as it is, not the game as you want it to be) and the current PvP system/mechanics - and the current GM roster is sadly lacking individuals with these qualities.

So yeah, I'd support NPC factions led by new GMs with all my heart (as would probably most other players), but since your attitude is extremely hostile and dev's attitude seems to be quite defeatist I don't think it's going to happen in the foreseeable future. I'd love to be wrong about this one though.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 12:19:19 pm by Nice_Boat »
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Crazy

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2011, 03:31:22 pm »

...

I...
Damn it's so hard to say that...
I totally agree with Nice_Boat.

I always thougt there should be GM, wich would give us the storyline of the game. They should make event with sense, coming into a big background story, where players bring their own stuff - and loose or win it,. Give skins for RP faction, and god tier items in some big PvP events in real towns.
GM as leader of NPCs factions is a great idea and would rbing a great dynamic to the server.




Quote
So the game master should now "fix" your lack of creativity/boredom? I can safely assure you that none of the gamemasters will try to make some "animation" for this clusterfuck of TC fights.
It's really sad that a major GM (and dev now I think) have so much hate/contempt for one of the biggest game mechanic, wich create many interactions, diplomacy etc into the game. Something that can involve half of the server (and I bet you think "the worst half"...).
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Lexx

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2011, 05:39:24 pm »

GM controlled factions are planned since the very first day. So far it has not been possible due to the lack of various other prerequisites.
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Izual

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2011, 05:43:15 pm »

Already planned.

Just wait until this game is done, or if you can't - leave the beta. Enough said.
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Sarakin

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2011, 05:43:33 pm »

Man, Nice_Boat has spoken the truth, I fully agree.

The problem is that none of current GMs are interested in PvP or TC. Most of them are not even playing and I´m not blaming them, they just want different game. But still, there are lot of players that are playing this game ONLY because of this hated feature.
Like I stated elsewhere, game is evolving and so is its playerbase, some things will be more appreciated now than they were before.
In order to please the crowd, I propose to have one new GM that is interested in PvP and will try to make the game more entertaining.
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RJ

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Re: Town Control
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2011, 06:24:08 pm »

I suggest that on next TC fight Surf Solar and Izual will visit team inside city with biscuits and tea and discuss nature of man with players to entertain them. Wipe will come and sing few songs, Voland will take few players on short trip to Vault 13 and Bob will smash some few randomly spawned by Rusty monsters.
I also think that all Rogues should get Super Mutants (with this faction they got most to do) 'skins', TNB (or how tha hell CS is called nowadays) Enclave 'skins' (they are badasses in the end) and TTTLA PA 'skins' (as they are knights in shiny armours saving the innocent) for roleplay purposes.

Yes, I am narrow minded but not as much as you.

P.S.: Izual is abuser and NCR army soldiers/players had 1000 HP and APAs as armours under skins of CAs. Ah, almost forgot that all had 3x BRD.
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