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[kttdestroyer]

Well, in my opinion, there should be few ways to control city. I will start with 2 ideas of alternatives:

1. The town is to be captured (just like now) and is to be invested in, it will generate very little income at the beggining if any. The faction in control have to build it up, like bank, stores, crafting house, pub. Those investments will each generate the income of the town. Those things should take some time, and to reach a steady income should take maybe 4 days. The Cost of investment should return itself after lets say 5 days.

2. Town could be raided, in a way of killing all traders, bankers and who ever represents the upgraded buildings. The money gained (looted from the corpses) will be represented with lets say 2 days of income (that NPC is killed and it will take him 3 days to respawn (more days then money gained of) and start generating money towards the controlling faction again). Destroying buildings and its upgrades doesint give anything (exept maybe rep drop, if the reputation would work correctly, otherwise no point).

The idea is to allow raider factions to do what they do, instead of taking control of the town they dont really want. Allowing them to take the money, without having to take the control of the town (like raiders suppose to do). Also, the town maybe would need some supplies now and then, which would ensure that the faction that controls the town, really wants the town (maybe repairs on buildings? or killing rats in the mine would give some boost towards this and that, in other words, things that you only do if you care about the town other then just income).

[runboy93]

I totally like you suggestion.
Raiders should take just loot and go away from city without taking it for themselfs.

Or maybe there could be cooldown(Like 1-5 RL days) for taking city under control?

[Michaelh139]

I already suggested the raider part.

So long ago i cannot remember what i called it...

Soooo  yes to your suggestion, I like how you have to actually maintain the town than just buy militia and leave, wtf?

[kttdestroyer]

Or maybe there could be cooldown(Like 1-5 RL days) for taking city under control?

You mean that counter would be 1-5 days isntead of 15 minutes??

I already suggested the raider part.

So long ago i cannot remember what i called it...

Soooo  yes to your suggestion, I like how you have to actually maintain the town than just buy militia and leave, wtf?

Yes, me too. http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=10929.msg91441#msg91441

And some other old ideas if anyone doesint have anything better to do: http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=10853.0

[wezu]

I like it. Just the profits should be based on player actions. The more players buy, sell, mine, craft, shovel the more caps (and/or other stuff) goes to the gang holding the town.
Ghost towns don't give a profit.

[avv]

Yes something like this should be made.

The thing with raiders is: they can raid but cannot be raided. Offense is the best defense so the raiders would be untouchable and thus hold the upper hand.

[kttdestroyer]

Well, acually, i think that raiders always hold an upper hand. The only thing that the faction that defends town gets is support of locals (players, like now in WWP, which is not much acually). But in most situation, the raiders always hold upper hand, in history and such. It was always harder to create a society, build a town, then to destroy it. Even as example can be given a body guard and a killer, the body guard has to protect his client, and the killer doesint care.

[avv]

Well, acually, i think that raiders always hold an upper hand. The only thing that the faction that defends town gets is support of locals (players, like now in WWP, which is not much acually). But in most situation, the raiders always hold upper hand, in history and such. It was always harder to create a society, build a town, then to destroy it. Even as example can be given a body guard and a killer, the body guard has to protect his client, and the killer doesint care.

In fonline the raiders have even bigger benefit because they can do harm when the real defenders aren't even there (midnight, worktime).

In real world there is always way to find out who the raiders are and where they live and then storm them. But in fonline they live in their unreachable base and can prepare as long as they want and choose the precise moment to strike.

So to get this kind of investment system work, the raiders must be either encouraged to attack when the defenders are present and discouraged when the players aren't there. Or there must be a way to strike back against the raiders. Or both.

[kttdestroyer]

Yes, well, current TC system is acually facing very simillar problems. I personally, dont have anything against set TC hours (like in the old days).

Anyways, one way, to allow the defenders to strike back:

The Raiders enter city
Kill the NPC they want to rob
A reward is put into the Raiders base
The faction that was in control of the town, now sees the raider base for 16 hours.
They can attack the raider base and try to get back what was stolen from them.
If the 16 hours pass, and the Defending faction dont manage to get back the loot from raider base, the loot turns into caps for the raiders.

Well, i dont like it 100%, but its an alternative.

Either way, i think what is porpose of this Idea about Raider/Defenders, is that, to not to destroy the defenders vision to hold the town (like we have now in the game world).

Also, this could be altered, that to take control of town, it requires more then just 5 people. I would suggest some starting money too, like 10k. To discourage gangs from taking town, if they just take it for "lolz" or money.

The other thing is, that a Raid is not end of the world, if it shows too good for raiders and too bad for defenders, one could possible set a limit of lootable NPCs per hour/30 min or something.

And the thing about the attacks at night, Devs tried to get around this with setting this hours of when people can TC. Its very hard thing to deal with this in a reasonable way. But yeah, that is one idea. To have set hours for TC.

Maybe, also, there would be a multiplicator, which would deliver its multiplication number from amount of players online. For exemple, if you kill a NPC to raid loot defenders money at night, when 50 people are online, you will get a penalty. If there are 250 people online, you will get a bonus (both in amount of money, and in amount of time it takes for NPC to respawn as both should be connected).

With/Without the Raider/Defender system, it could be possible to discuarege town taking at night by making the amount of bribe (if it would cost to take the town) also depend on amount of players avalible on the server (or amount of players needed to take the town, would grow when low amount of players online). Ofcourse the amout of players calculation should by dynamic, an idea would be to make a check for amount of players online every day automaticly, and store it in a file, then let it automaticly count out the average - highest - lowest and go from that to decide what bonus / penalties should there be, possible counting out % of the highest.

[avv]

The Raiders enter city
Kill the NPC they want to rob
A reward is put into the Raiders base
The faction that was in control of the town, now sees the raider base for 16 hours.
They can attack the raider base and try to get back what was stolen from them.
If the 16 hours pass, and the Defending faction dont manage to get back the loot from raider base, the loot turns into caps for the raiders.

What's stopping the raiders from picking the loot from that locker and carrying it away? Or should the locker just stay locked till 16h and winner gets the price?

Well, i dont like it 100%, but its an alternative.

It has holes, like night time capping. Better think of something else. How about this: after the raid, the loot doesn't yet exist in material world. It is stored in server's memory. Everyone who participated the raid are wanted by the town for x ammount of time. The faction guarding the town has automatically the right to hunt them down. They can also accept other players to do it after checking their status. Then we just have to find some cool tracking feature to track those raiders. If the raider is killed the bounty hunt is partially succesful and his faction loses wealth from the loot stored in the server's memory. Part of the stolen loot is returned and bonus is also paid. Once the time passes, the loot is given to the raider faction's locker somewhere.

All that's lacking is some sort of tracking system. How to catch a dude on the worldmap, or logged out?

Also, this could be altered, that to take control of town, it requires more then just 5 people. I would suggest some starting money too, like 10k. To discourage gangs from taking town, if they just take it for "lolz" or money.

Yeh it could help a little. A gang has to know that it can hold the town long enough to actually profit. Then again, with current capflow, people would still cap just for the lolz even if it took 10k and never made profit.

Maybe, also, there would be a multiplicator, which would deliver its multiplication number from amount of players online. For exemple, if you kill a NPC to raid loot defenders money at night, when 50 people are online, you will get a penalty. If there are 250 people online, you will get a bonus (both in amount of money, and in amount of time it takes for NPC to respawn as both should be connected).

Dude this might be it. Multipliers based on players online could be actually utilized in many other purposes too.

[kttdestroyer]

What's stopping the raiders from picking the loot from that locker and carrying it away? Or should the locker just stay locked till 16h and winner gets the price?

Yes, thats how i "see" that solution. The box/bag is only open-able by the town controlling faction until the time passes, then it becomes avalible for raiders to grab.

It has holes, like night time capping. Better think of something else. How about this: after the raid, the loot doesn't yet exist in material world. It is stored in server's memory. Everyone who participated the raid are wanted by the town for x ammount of time. The faction guarding the town has automatically the right to hunt them down. They can also accept other players to do it after checking their status. Then we just have to find some cool tracking feature to track those raiders. If the raider is killed the bounty hunt is partially succesful and his faction loses wealth from the loot stored in the server's memory. Part of the stolen loot is returned and bonus is also paid. Once the time passes, the loot is given to the raider faction's locker somewhere.

Aah yeah, thats intresting, together with bringing back the tracking function! Sounds like good fun, also opens option for a lot intresting situations that are purely based on players creativty.

All that's lacking is some sort of tracking system. How to catch a dude on the worldmap, or logged out?

Maybe if player logs out when the timer has not yet passed, the character dissapears but the gold stays in form of a chest/box, that remains visible until the timer runs out and can be tracked down. Same with World map, he would become down trackable even if just staying on world map (the bounty hunters from town controlling faction would simply encounter him even if he is not in-map).

Or, an alternative could be that the timer only counts down when player is either moving or in map and is logged in. So, he needs to try to escape for this amout of time (the timer could be a lot shorter then though like 30 min or 1 hour).

Yeh it could help a little. A gang has to know that it can hold the town long enough to actually profit. Then again, with current capflow, people would still cap just for the lolz even if it took 10k and never made profit.

Yeah, well, the economy is not good, and it brings problems to a lot of things. Like mutants (mutants are indeed expensive, but with current millionare gangs not really). But that is a problem on its own in my opinion. Hopefully there will be some changes to this.

Dude this might be it. Multipliers based on players online could be actually utilized in many other purposes too.

Yes, and i think it is a lot more dynamic, more life like. I agree 

[kttdestroyer]

An Alternative/Addition:

What about if towns overtaking wasint just one time but was 3 parts (or more/less)?

I mean, right now you go start the timer and in 15 min town is yours. What if each Town was splitted in parts. Like say Redding for exemple:

1. Mines
2. Bank
3. Sheriff

Now, when you take over the mines, the town is not over taken, only 1/3 of the town. There is also a cooldown that is lets say 1-2 hours between the parts. So, You can take 1. Mines, it takes 15 mins, and you have to wait 1-2 hour before you can proceed to next part. The Town that owns 2/3 of town gets the caps, the town that controls 3/3 of the town controls militia and caps. This could lead to some more extended fighting.

Not just side swaping each hour of the town, but acual Battles of Towns. This would also give a lot more ability of gang in control to react. One could even extend this to more parts and lower time limit. The fights for Total control of towns would last sometimes even days, but, will also be harder to loose. If we took 5 parts for exemple, the attacking faction would need to win 2-3 times per day in 2-3 days. That would also make "Battles" and "Wars", you can win a battle but need to win many battles to win the war.  

(I posted it here instead as it would just get wasted in other topic)

[avv]

I mean, right now you go start the timer and in 15 min town is yours. What if each Town was splitted in parts. Like say Redding for exemple:

Yes it'd be much better if it took longer to capture single towns. It'd be much more athmospheric if gangs centered their actions around their favourite towns rather than taking them randomly and skirmishing across the wastes without bigger picture than fighting itself.

[LeMark]

Yes it'd be much better if it took longer to capture single towns. It'd be much more athmospheric if gangs centered their actions around their favourite towns rather than taking them randomly and skirmishing across the wastes without bigger picture than fighting itself.

From my experience on private Ultima Online server it is to game master to create background and make animation who bring reason to the TC. This server need animator GM, for random activity on south, but for north fight to... It is ti them to create organisation with some goal and bring player tteam to join them. Of course those GM have to be recruting in player base...

[maszrum]

From my experience on private Ultima Online server it is to game master to create background and make animation who bring reason to the TC. This server need animator GM, for random activity on south, but for north fight to... It is ti them to create organisation with some goal and bring player tteam to join them. Of course those GM have to be recruting in player base...

totaly agree, today we was thinking about something like that on teamspeak.
not only about real game masters and also about some big organisations driven by players. atm we have enough people and power to do something good, new organisation with some new goals but we are very limited, its hard to do something new without any help