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Town Control

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LeMark:
Surf Solar I experience some realy nice RP server of Ultima Online with a LOT of PVP. But the PVP was make for some objectif and yes GM can do thing player cannot. You have to create a history, a background for this server, make some character with charisma, this character have to be play by GM etc... Do you have any experience of RP MMMO server? If yes without any "gm" help? If yes tell me I will try it ...

Lexx:

--- Quote from: LeMark on February 05, 2011, 11:35:13 PM ---Of course those GM have to be recruting in player base...

--- End quote ---

Damnation. Now everything is clear-- We shouldn't have bought our GMs on eBay.


Also Surf Solar is right. We tried a lot GM influenced stuff already, but a lot (a lot? Most of it, if it wasn't nazi-controlled) failed because of players who want to ruin the fun for everyone. It's just how it is. Public events with lots of players don't work in a game where nobody is invincible. Doesn't matter if you write 10 lines of background for your GM character or 10 A4 pages, nobody is interested in such things.

kttdestroyer:
Well, personally, i do believe a GM could be there, to "push" somethings. However, the server is somehow static, there is little dynamic "things" in game. So the game remains very simillar each day.

A town cannot be destroyed, they cannot grow. (They never change, TC in Modoc on friday, is same as TC in Modoc on tuesday)

There are little combat scenarios, as the tactics are pretty limited. (most often there are maybe 1-4 possible ways to attack, and even less to defend)

The battles overally are instant in practise, becouse of lack of firinig delay for weapons (as one of the things i believe causes this). The best fights last for maybe 20-30 minutes most of the times, and that is very seldom, and even then the acual fight takes few seconds (what takes most time is the organization parts).


Overally, in my opinion, a game CAN be made to have elements of "RP AND PVP" together in one, without GMs manipulating the world in real time towards the "RP PVP scenarios". But, the game must include this "seed" of RP in many elements of the game.

What i mean with that is, is if the players are very limited (not limited if compared to other games, but limited towards a perfect state then a lot for sure) in how they can manipulate the world, then there is little happening in the world, meaning the world doesint interact back at you (Peacekeepers take all towns, and what? nothing, North Bandits take them back, and what?). North Bandits attack NCR, and what? some guards die, 20 min later they respawn and nothing happend. What could be dynamic here, would be if each town had few states of economy (good, average,bad) and it would be affected by player actions, for exemple, as we now have wipes every once in a while, so one wipe maybe NCR would be very poor, (in poor state it would loose some buildings perhaps, and a lot beggards running around, and less guards etc), another wipe maybe it would become strong (and even take part in TC? if NCR player faction was to be included). Maybe epidemy strikes though some towns? Enclave air drop at Gecko? A bit too much, but the purpose is same.

The most RP-PVP elements we have are acually community based, but as we have learned, it is not possible to keep a town, unless peace with everyone (which eliminates the PVP from the RP-PVP). Also we have APK and PK, but after you kill same person 20 times in TC over and over it becomes pointless to find a reason behind killing this person. We got base looting, which is RP indeed in my opinion, mostly becouse some player DONT do it becouse of a choice they have made (however, in this decision is where the RP part in this ends here in my opinion), most of those things are very based on community and then game, not the otherway around. Another small thing we have is ability to kill merchants (merc merchants) and town leaders, which is good exemple on how the game can create scenarios (by player actions that effects the world which in turn affects him/another player back) for RP-PVP.

That counts also in random encounters (the caravans are way better then at first, when they pick up loot for exemple, a small thing, but interacts with player a lot more), random encounters could be even quests, some special mobs that are connected to other players (like, in one encounter, a player finds something, and in another encounter a diffrent player get asked by a npc he encounters to find the item the first player found)

A little of both, wouldint hurt  ::)

avv:

--- Quote from: kttdestroyer on February 06, 2011, 05:37:54 AM ---Well, personally, i do believe a GM could be there, to "push" somethings. However, the server is somehow static, there is little dynamic "things" in game. So the game remains very simillar each day.
--- End quote ---

Players cannot be allowed to affect the state of the wasteland as long as they don't share the same views as the npcs. Players do things for the lulz, excitement and interest, npcs do things to stay alive or uphold their society. So if lead was given to players, the world would be a smoking ruin pretty fast. Or there would be a giant penises or swastikas drawn everywhere with whatever materials it was possible to do. 

Nice_Boat:

--- Quote from: Surf Solar on February 06, 2011, 12:31:47 AM ---So the game master should now "fix" your lack of creativity/boredom? I can safely assure you that none of the gamemasters will try to make some "animation" for this clusterfuck of TC fights.

--- End quote ---

2238 is more or less competitive server - the only thing to do inside the game system aside from crafting/trading/exploring (which gets old fast) is town control. Ergo, by being hostile to TC you're being hostile to the most active part of the playerbase - recent TNB vs TPK battles were literally involving 50% of the server population in a single location on an almost daily basis. It happened without any GM support, so I don't see how you could accuse the players of lack of creativity if your endeavors as GMs weren't even close to being this popular aside from singular events like NA vs DA which, incidentally, were mostly also gang based.

Now, I could think of a thousand and one ideas on how to make this server even more lively with proactive, positive GM action based on general server "rules of physics" (instead of item spawning, free exp high HP Izual's NCR army, which was essentially "cheating", ie. free of limitations normal players had to overcome but still quite succesful and fun to encounter/fight against) - but I won't even bother seeing how you all seem to have enforcer mentality (ie. "we're here to punish" instead of "we're here to help with creating something") and lack any 2238-based experience in leading even a mildly succesful group of players. Just some really basic food for thought - an NPC faction doesn't require complex scripting, new framework etc. - it requires a GM leader (and I mean someone who is actually qualified and proven), a location (there are plenty already in), a carrot on a stick to make players want to join (custom skins, maybe some god tier items for faction leaders spawned every week/month) and a transparent set of rules to keep the rest of the server from yelling "that's cheap!" or "abuse!". How about a faction stylist GM to give the currently existing gangs a bit of a personal touch instead of the current copy/paste Combat Armor image? But to do that you'd have to have some love for both the game (and I mean the game as it is, not the game as you want it to be) and the current PvP system/mechanics - and the current GM roster is sadly lacking individuals with these qualities.

So yeah, I'd support NPC factions led by new GMs with all my heart (as would probably most other players), but since your attitude is extremely hostile and dev's attitude seems to be quite defeatist I don't think it's going to happen in the foreseeable future. I'd love to be wrong about this one though.

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