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[Ayuta]

So use your brain and try to avoid exit grid. Merc and muties sacks inside town.

Use your brain and stop post such stupid posts. How some gang can defend their city if enemy start timer for example camp with 5players in broken hills behind the gate and got support of 20 mutants from main entrance and other team from wm? The only possible way is to let enemy take your city and then retake it back but its bad too.

[naossano]

Other nerfing possibilities.

1 disallow dual logs for good, or make it simpler to use. So, the dual log cheaters wouldn't have the upper hand. No one or everyone could use it. Not just hackers or multi-computers guys.

2 Put larger differences between lvl 1 leader and lvl 21 leader. (more mercenaries, shared perks, level caps to buy them, wathever)

3 Make a delay in which the mercenaries can't  either shoot or been shot. (so, theire freezing won't hurt them)

4 Don't allow supermutants (and brahmins) to enter cars. It is unrealistic, and too much unbalanced to make them move on wm so quickly

5 Make your mercenaries level up, before using them in Town Control. (so, they wouldn't be so strong, just after been bought)

[avv]

1 disallow dual logs for good, or make it simpler to use. So, the dual log cheaters wouldn't have the upper hand. No one or everyone could use it. Not just hackers or multi-computers guys.

Even if you disallow dual logs, there'd be a guy waiting for an order to spawn muties.

2 Put larger differences between lvl 1 leader and lvl 21 leader. (more mercenaries, shared perks, level caps to buy them, wathever

This would be a possible solution, but it has to be made sure that playing as leader is also enjoyable so that it's not going to be just a mutant APC-alt. In addition lvling takes only time and everyone has time, unlike skill.

3 Make a delay in which the mercenaries can't  either shoot or been shot. (so, theire freezing won't hurt them)

This sounds viable.

4 Don't allow supermutants (and brahmins) to enter cars. It is unrealistic, and too much unbalanced to make them move on wm so quickly

Doesn't really directly affect to the feared spawn'n'shoot.

5 Make your mercenaries level up, before using them in Town Control. (so, they wouldn't be so strong, just after been bought

Again, takes only time.

[naossano]

My point is to stop the using of lvl1 alt characters created only by proxy players, to put an abusive number of super mutants in TC.

If you want to use a leader on TC, play it before, by leveling the char and levelling the follower. So, it won't just be a dual screen and a few millions caps, but a real leader player, who worked enough to make his artillery strike possible. So, he would have used as much ressources, as the PVP big gun, got skilled, in order to level up himself, and his followers, and play only his leader the during the Town Control. Problem solved.

I don't care if there is supermuties spawn. There also could be tank in the battleground, as long as there is a pilot character, and a firer character in it.

What is questionnable is the fact you can use them too much easily if your faction has caps, and dual log proxies.
Building a group of supermuties should be a work on itself, with players dedicated to it. (if you don't like merc leader, don't play them)

[avv]

So, it won't just be a dual screen and a few millions caps, but a real leader player, who worked enough to make his artillery strike possible. So, he would have used as much ressources, as the PVP big gun, got skilled, in order to level up himself, and his followers, and play only his leader the during the Town Control. Problem solved.

This is the reason I started the topic in first place. Players think it's completely okay to receive great ammount of power by spending lots of time outside the actual pvp event by gathering resources.

I don't care if there is supermuties spawn. There also could be tank in the battleground, as long as there is a pilot character, and a firer character in it.

And I wouldn't care if you could buy a nuke with 1mil caps, launch it with 300science char and blast the whole server. The player had the right char and paid the caps, so he deserves results right?

Building a group of supermuties should be a work on itself, with players dedicated to it. (if you don't like merc leader, don't play them)

And now I can disagree. I'll try to explain plainly. In my opinion it is bad designing if players are rewarded excessively from dedicating lots of time on getting material and then using it against someone. The reason why is that when you use for example mutants against someone, it's not fair because that someone wasn't involved in the process it took for you to get the mutants. This person couldn't prevent you from gathering the resources but he has to deal with the outcome of your dedication.
Fairer option would be if more dedication was required inside the actual pvp event, rather than outside it. Surely dedication is required but only when builds, players numbers equipment are close to even.
I'd really like to get some answers to this, because what I just wrote above was the partially reason this topic was started.

[naossano]

I think your point is about the fonline2238 whole gameplay.

In fonline, when you have something, it took generally time to get it. (the char, the stuff, the strategy, everything)
In the opposite, you can lose them quickly.

Which needs you to take a real care about everything you bring outside your base, outside your bank account. It's not only about TC, but the entire game system.

I think it is a purpose on itself. Am i wrong ?

[avv]

I think your point is about the fonline2238 whole gameplay.

In fonline, when you have something, it took generally time to get it. (the char, the stuff, the strategy, everything)
In the opposite, you can lose them quickly.

Which needs you to take a real care about everything you bring outside your base, outside your bank account. It's not only about TC, but the entire game system.

I think it is a purpose on itself. Am i wrong ?

It's ok when only npcs are involved but gets trickier when you deal with players. Players have right to defend themselves and deserve a chance to not to get wiped out just like that. They should also deserve a chance to outmatch each other with skill. Or at least that's what many succesful games are based on. If players outmatch each other with time, it's automatically unbalanced for others. That's because you can infinitely increase your power along with time, but skill has a limit. Even with hundreds of hours of training you can't get as powerful as by grinding for hundreds of hours.

Games that involve hoarding resources and then bringing those resources against other players have either of the following:

- Guaranteed safe places where players simply cannot harm others, but can participate in activities.
Or
- Chance to impair other player's resource gathering process. Unlike in fonline, where you can't rob enemy's bank or intervene his grinding process.

Only the latter one would suit fonline but there is funnier way to help the situation. Increase the ammount of how much skill has weight in the actual pvp event.

[Ulrek]

Hey... thats an idea. bank robbery... interest wouldn't be the easy way to getting your own private army as much.. *evil grin*

<,..,<

-Ulrek-

[wezu]

avv- you may have a point there but I don't see any suggestions on how to make these mythicall skills part of the game.
What skills should that be? Must I panint a picture to shoot from a in game gun? Or dance the flamenco to craft ammo? Maybe solve a sudocu to make a headshot?  Halfcircle rigth + hi punch? Forward, back, down, lo-kick, hi kick, lo punch, hi punch+down. 4 HIT COMBO!!

Wrong game.

[avv]

avv- you may have a point there but I don't see any suggestions on how to make these mythicall skills part of the game.
What skills should that be? Must I panint a picture to shoot from a in game gun? Or dance the flamenco to craft ammo? Maybe solve a sudocu to make a headshot?  Halfcircle rigth + hi punch? Forward, back, down, lo-kick, hi kick, lo punch, hi punch+down. 4 HIT COMBO!!

Wrong game.

Fallout tactics and Jagged Alliance 2 would be good examples to start with.

[Ulrek]

avv- you may have a point there but I don't see any suggestions on how to make these mythicall skills part of the game.
What skills should that be? Must I panint a picture to shoot from a in game gun? Or dance the flamenco to craft ammo? Maybe solve a sudocu to make a headshot?  Halfcircle rigth + hi punch? Forward, back, down, lo-kick, hi kick, lo punch, hi punch+down. 4 HIT COMBO!!

Wrong game.

A: You make no sense.

Fallout tactics and Jagged Alliance 2 would be good examples to start with.

B: I can kind of see the idea here. but really, the only way to make mutants less used. is to remove bank interest. that is, as far as i can tell the main reason people use mutants. cripple the money supply. and people won't be using super mutant mercs as much any more.

C: For the people who are saying "Just ban duel loggin' for gud!", they're trying.

D: For people who otherwise have no idea what they're talking about but still hate mutants due to getting blown up all the time.. spewing non-sense probably won't get anything done.

-Ulrek-

[Hololasima]

B: I can kind of see the idea here. but really, the only way to make mutants less used. is to remove bank interest. that is, as far as i can tell the main reason people use mutants. cripple the money supply. and people won't be using super mutant mercs as much any more.

-Ulrek-

You dont get it ? You dont mind that you are dead before you see who firing ?
Can you people just see this simple thing ?

[Keldorn]

B: I can kind of see the idea here. but really, the only way to make mutants less used. is to remove bank interest. that is, as far as i can tell the main reason people use mutants. cripple the money supply. and people won't be using super mutant mercs as much any more.

-Ulrek-

If anything the root of the problem is power gaming and horribly balanced combat among others.  Blaming bank interest is just lazy.

Fix dual logging, re-balance the combat, make muties obtainable througha much slower process than "just paying caps" like faction points/reputation with remnants, adjust mutie weapon damage. 

[Graf]

If anything the root of the problem is power gaming and horribly balanced combat among others.  Blaming bank interest is just lazy.
Fix dual logging, re-balance the combat, make muties obtainable througha much slower process than "just paying caps" like faction points/reputation with remnants, adjust mutie weapon damage.  

Why do you think, that earning caps is easy? Yes, there was a bug with TC this session, but normally it's not that easy to get caps.
Moreover, to get muties, you also need to kill unity, get their rocket launchers, then go and stole rockets from brotherhood which isn't easy at all. After all, you need to give all stuff to muties and transport them to the city.
You just underestimate how difficult it is.

[Keldorn]

Moreover, to get muties, you also need to kill unity, get their rocket launchers, then go and stole rockets from brotherhood which isn't easy at all. After all, you need to give all stuff to muties and transport them to the city.
You just underestimate how difficult it is.

I am sure you are correct.  My post was more about how fucking lazy it is to just sit back and blame bank interest for the mutie problem instead of blaming power gaming.  Or how the devs can't fix dual logging so folks instead point more fingers at bank interest.  And the posts who would much rather blame bank interest than how fucked up it is for TC to give out caps instead of items.  I am sure the primary reason for TC giving caps is to only allow the big gangs access to a substantial and consistent rate of caps.  Combine that with the dictatorial approach of making most, if not all, good shit caps only and you see a pattern of favoritism to big gangs.

Best thread was Izual wanting to eliminate bank interest because of a stupid glitch and to help the big gangs out by screwing over the little folks.