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[5me0]

So, stealing is out kf control, and you can barely talk to an npc without someone jacking your crap and running to the nearest red zone to gtfo.

First, make "steal" timer appear only on the person who steals, end thus makes him unable to leare the avea (like a combat timer) for 2 minutes ? .
The person who got stolen will have kill rights (1 kill) for 24 hours. Also you see a red timer (in hours) above the head of the person who stole from you. This also makes it harder for a person to steal you and run into a crowd, and easier for you to identify him if he comes back again.

This will make stealing have bigger consequences while keeping the system use-able. A jackass cant be able to steal the whohe area,$run away, and waltz in a minute later ajd have every1 powerless to do shit to him.

Ofcourse, all of this only applies to protected towns.

[runboy93]

There is many choices that you can prevent to be robbed.

1. If you go selling something stuff, then take only these stuff along with you and leave anything else to tent.

2. Put items to hands to prevent those items robbed from you.

3. If someone fail to steal from you and guard see him then you can shoot thief and you help others.

4. Use you mind.

[5me0]

There is many choices that you can prevent to be robbed.

Oh ?

1. If you go selling something stuff, then take only these stuff along with you and leave anything else to tent.

I get some money, i goto an npc to buy shit. someone is waiting near the npc for me to come and talk to the npc. I come to the npc, i get my shit jacked, stealer runs into a crowd and u can barely distinguish shitheads from each other, he goes straight to the red zone and comes back in a minute to taunt you and steal you again.

2. Put items to hands to prevent those items robbed from you.

Yeah thank god this works or else you wouldn't be able to carry shit.

3. If someone fail to steal from you and guard see him then you can shoot thief and you help others.

There al teast needs to be some sort of visual guidance system to aid you, like a red timer over the head.
Although, I think that the stricter measure of not allowing him to leave the area like a combat timer also need to be applied, so you atleast have a fair chance to try to get ur stuff back thru fighting him.

4. Use you mind.

Thanks for the friendly suggestion. (Ironic that your grammar sucks)

[5me0]

I realize that turning on the player names can act like a visual aid, but a signal that someone is engage-able in general would be useful I think. Maybe a color overlay instead of a timer above the head. Make them shine/flicker red ?

[Snackish]

You got stolen from and you're upset the thiefing system is fine in my opinion just watch your back more like you would in real life exit the trade if some 1 is getting close to you move the window of the trade so you can see yourself and any 1 around you and just move outta there god damn way it's not hard just use your head a little.

[HertogJan]

I agree with snackish.
You get stolen from, it's your fault.
Pay more attention.

Yesterday I saw several people in Junktown and the Hub logging off while they had stuff in their inventory.
I also saw people going afk with stuff in their inventory.
Don't be surprised when your inventory gets emptied when you do.

You can tag people red, use it.
Also when you're trading in a shop, close the door if no one else is there.
That way you can have a bit of extra time to close trading.
Don't go trading when there are a lot of people around.
Some might be thieves, others might be shop shooters.
Avoid NCR.

[5me0]

Are you guys serious ?
How can the game have a basic economy going if you can't even shop at an npc without being killed or robbed ?
Close the door of the shop to give yourself more time ? Really ? And what happens once the game starts getting a real player population ?
If anything, the store guards should protect the customers as well as the shop itself.
This is just nuts.

And anyway,
I'm not saying don't let people steal, I'm saying empower people to act against stealing by allowing them to engage robber for longer periods of time, and by denying robbers the right to leave an area just like with a combat timer.

[avv]

You can tag people red, use it.
Also when you're trading in a shop, close the door if no one else is there.
That way you can have a bit of extra time to close trading.
Don't go trading when there are a lot of people around.
Some might be thieves, others might be shop shooters.
Avoid NCR.

There's always ways around problems but it doesn't yet mean that something is fine. Just the fact that you can't do anything to a person you know is a thief and going to steal from you should ring a bell. Surely you can just run away or suicide-burst him until he quits but that just shows how broken thievery is. A thief who owns a hotel room is basically free to terrorize the town as he pleases.

[HertogJan]

Are you guys serious ?
How can the game have a basic economy going if you can't even shop at an npc without being killed or robbed ?
Close the door of the shop to give yourself more time ? Really ? And what happens once the game starts getting a real player population ?
If anything, the store guards should protect the customers as well as the shop itself.
This is just nuts.

And anyway,
I'm not saying don't let people steal, I'm saying empower people to act against stealing by allowing them to engage robber for longer periods of time, and by denying robbers the right to leave an area just like with a combat timer.

A timeout for thieves is useless IMO.
If the thief succeeds you can't shoot him as he's still protected.
If he fails you can shoot him.
Try shooting someone in a guarded town or simply walk around armed there.
You'll get shot for having a weapon in your active slot.

You can get stolen from and killed everywhere in this game.
Store guards can't prevent this.

I've said it before, I would love to see a unique animation for stealing, even though this will take a lot of work.
On top of that I would love to see a 2nd stealing time-out which prevents a thief from stealing from the same target again for the next 5 real time minutes.
This should prevent harassing. As far as I'm concerned, both the thief and the victim can see this timer.

There's always ways around problems but it doesn't yet mean that something is fine. Just the fact that you can't do anything to a person you know is a thief and going to steal from you should ring a bell. Surely you can just run away or suicide-burst him until he quits but that just shows how broken thievery is. A thief who owns a hotel room is basically free to terrorize the town as he pleases.

What you say also applies for shop shooters, simply replace the word thief.
As for hotel rooms, I agree with you.
It should be made that you can't rent a room or prolong the rent when your reputation is below -300 with the town's faction.
If you have a room when your reputation goes below -300 you should be able to keep it till the rent expires.

[avv]

It should be made that you can't rent a room or prolong the rent when your reputation is below -300 with the town's faction.
If you have a room when your reputation goes below -300 you should be able to keep it till the rent expires.

Except that rep isn't particularly working feature either. You can wave it back and forth by selling crap in shops and then committing crimes. Lol you could actually steal stuff and then sell it for rep.

A certain way to keep thievery at bay would be that each thievery is recorded by the server and the victim can report it to the local lawkeepers if he knows who stole from him. He simply writes the robber's name in the "say" window in dialogue. If the accusement is true this thief gets -100 rep that doesn't replenish or cannot be repaid in any other way than if the thief himself comes and returns the stolen items or caps worth their price to the lawkeeper npc. Then this lawkeeper will give the item/caps back to the person it was stolen and the thief's crimes are forgiven but only if the victim agrees to take the items back and forgive. The information about returned items could be informed to the victim via radio, or whisper comments by town guards, or he could simply check the lawkeeper npc every now and then. 

That would be pretty abuse-safe method. You could only abuse it by running thief-alts or having ridiculously hard name to write, which would be countered by taking a screeny for example.

[wezu]

The problem is that some (most?) player are, in Layman's terms, 'arsholes'. If a feature is abusable it will be abused.
Nerfing it is pointless as long as there's a shadow of a chance to annoy someone and get away with it (causing yet more grief) then people will do it. Anything you can think of to stop people form spamming steal can be negated just by making another alt. Timers, cooldowns, limits, penalties, rep drop, etc. all pointless.   

Maybe blocking stealing from players that barter or talk to NPC would make a change, but probably not.

Live with it or move North, you can always shoot a thief there, you can even shoot people that you just suspect being a thief, hell you can shoot anybody (but then again anybody can shoot you, there's anarchy for you). 

[Floodnik]

How can the game have a basic economy going if you can't even shop at an npc without being killed or robbed ?

Oh, so you can't? I'm sorry for you. Dunno how is that you can't, since 90% population can, well, not my problem.

[avv]

The problem is that some (most?) player are, in Layman's terms, 'arsholes'. If a feature is abusable it will be abused.

Actually the problem is that thievery is almost like abuse or grief the way players use it. Since it mostly just annoys people but doesn't provide that good benefits compared to alternatives.

Thievery shouldn't have the reputation of abuse but normal gameplay, but that's not gonna happen with current mechanics. 

[HertogJan]

Except that rep isn't particularly working feature either. You can wave it back and forth by selling crap in shops and then committing crimes. Lol you could actually steal stuff and then sell it for rep.

I must be doing something wrong than.
Recently my thief alt did a lot of trading in Junktown, the only rep increase that alt had was from staying logged out for a day.
No rep increase visible.

Your suggestion about reporting thievery to lawkeepers simply means people steal till there rep is -1500 than move to another town. When there rep is bad everywhere they simply use ~deleteself and start all over again.
Another thing is that it will lead to thieves cooperating and using steal together. You go figure who actually stole something.
Not the mention the none Russians among us will have a problem with the cyrillic names which makes it abuseable.

It's the players complaining about thievery who give it a bad reputation.
Together with the players, and many aren't thieves, who pretend to use steal on people just to harass them.

[Reginmund]

So what's stopping the merchants from having their own merc/guard who when spotting an unsuccessful thief attempt on somebody engaged with the vendor will thereby shoot the thief. I mean the guy is losing business here if the thief is just going to run off with the stuff and maybe sell it later.

But i do see a problem in that although it might stop someone from solo thieving, nothing is going to stop him/her from bringing a friend and again it's only if the guard spots it too so very competent thieves will get away with it, or lucky ones.