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[Nyan]

I know it's a bad place to ask, but don't wanna create new topics. How does stealing work now? I want to know some numbers, because there is no data on wiki yet. In which situation the item is not stolen and guards notice that, what skills/attributes does it involve, what's the % chance etc.

[JovankaB]

I think stealing itself is OK as it is (it should be hard, because you can do it naked and empty and you don't risk anything except reputation). It's reputation system that needs improvements, not stealing.

The problem is, every thief is doomed from the start - (s)he will be killed on sight in every town sooner or later. Personally I think reputation should regenerate slowly - very slowly, like 2 points / game day (200 points / 5 real days). It would force thieves to move from town to town and not steal 24h/day in one town, but their fate wouldn't be to be killed on sight in every single town sooner or later. Also reputation penalties for faction membership (like Vault City, Raiders) should not regenerate as long as you are in the faction (but it would start regenerating if you leave the faction).

[Nyan]

ok, seriously what is going on? I got -300 reputation for one thievery act. One. -300. That's insane.

[Crazy]

I think stealing itself is OK as it is (it should be hard, because you can do it naked and empty and you don't risk anything except reputation). It's reputation system that needs improvements, not stealing.

The problem is, every thief is doomed from the start - (s)he will be killed on sight in every town sooner or later. Personally I think reputation should regenerate slowly - very slowly, like 2 points / game day (200 points / 5 real days). It would force thieves to move from town to town and not steal 24h/day in one town, but their fate wouldn't be to be killed on sight in every single town sooner or later. Also reputation penalties for faction membership (like Vault City, Raiders) should not regenerate as long as you are in the faction (but it would start regenerating if you leave the faction).

I love this, this should be like that!

[Aryan]

ok, seriously what is going on? I got -300 reputation for one thievery act. One. -300. That's insane.

Sadly ncr carebears have won for the moment Nyan

Itis pretty insane considering rep will never regenerate, as you've said theivery is a dead profession at the present. guards and pe checks aside, as DR.Jo  said reputation system destroys any theif from the start. It was said that theives shouldn't be able to run around ncr stealing from people all day, but what else do you expect a theif to do? ncr is the trade hub in 2238 and ofc theives will congregate there, it's the only logical place to be.

Lexx, you say that we will end up with big groups swarming people in ncr like before, when? even when steal system wasent nerfed i dont renember any really big bunch of theives hovering ncr, at most there were two three total at any given time and maybe only one of these was a pure 300% theif

There needs to be a way to regenerate reputation, even if its shoveling shit in that particular city for 5rep a pop with the speed shit respawns its going ot take a long time to gain back a single steals worth of -rep.

[Lexx]

Sadly ncr carebears have won for the moment Nyan

Reputation in NCR works like in all other guarded towns. There is no exception.

[avv]

Stealing might be nerfed beyond useless, but let it be that way until a working system is developed. Old stealing system was against all logic.
There's nothing wrong with stealing as long as nobody knows whos the thief. Thievery is sneaky job, not running from victim to victim trying over and over again to steal something without nobody being able to stop you because they didn't "notice".

[metzger777]

t: forgot to add, if that system would be added, id like it to stay from minus to 0, no +++ growing. as 0 is max limit to "per day growing" reputation.

reputation reputation, reputation, fix that and thief proffession will be alive again, whats the propblem with thives anyway? why they hate it? its a roleplay proffession just lije all others, some people have 200 bigguns they always win, why people with 300 steal  are useless, what u want all to just choose combat skills and turn this game to a shootem up game, not fallout style, i hope the devs can fix the rep system so the game will be more fun to more people not just players with guns

[Nyan]

Stealing could be also connected with a)sneaking b)charisma. First one is obvious, the second one would work on npcs. You'd be able to talk to them to distract their attention and then steal their belongings. But stealing from other players MUST be resurrected. They will bawww, moan and whine - yes, but that's the best thing in this whole profession. It's war, some people fight, some are supportive and heal or create items and some should be some kind of spies who can eg steal enemies ammo and weapons and weaken them. I don't know about all the other thieves, but I don't do that to gain money, so only updating the game so we will be able to steal from lockers and npcs in towns will be stupid as hell, there will be no human interaction and roleplaying. It's like making a sanctuary 'here you go thieves, go and have fun while people will play everywhere else'. People who complain about thieves are rich high level players who want to show themselves in the cities and are stupid enough to carry everything with them.

[Badger]

I think people resent thieves so much because there's no risk involved for them. They just make a guy, grind him up to get decent steal, drop all their gear in a tent and try their luck in various towns. Dying doesn't mean they lose anything, and if they succeed they just scurry back to their tent and switch characters.

Someone like dremor is a good example. He waits night and day at the exit of the NCR, he groups people without them noticing in an attempt to get to their tent, and if he gets noticed and killed - so what? He hasn't lost anything, he just heads back to the NCR and tries again.

[Nyan]

that's not really stealing. Anyone can do that

[Badger]

that's not really stealing. Anyone can do that

The same applies to your kind of stealing. You drop your gear and start molesting people. If you die, you move town. If you succeed, you dump it and switch characters. Same principle. No real risk on your part.

[Nyan]

I dont. I main thief even if it's underpowered now. Don't have any other characters, all the items I steal I give to the poor or sell to redistribute goods.

[Lexx]

Player vs. Player stealing is good right now. I see no reason why it should be changed-- it will just annoy all other people once again. Also like it has been said already, it's a bit stupid if you noticed a thief near you but can't do anything, because your character or a guard didn't noticed the thief yet. What is needed is something else to do for thiefs, that doesn't need to involve stealing stuff from players as main job. For this we have plans on the desk aswell, but it has no high priority on the to-do list right now.

[avv]

I think people resent thieves so much because there's no risk involved for them. They just make a guy, grind him up to get decent steal, drop all their gear in a tent and try their luck in various towns. Dying doesn't mean they lose anything, and if they succeed they just scurry back to their tent and switch characters

They are risking their reputation. But other than that, it's quite riskless stuff-wise. Thieves should be like Aladin: agile dudes who try to avoid guards and steal what they can for living in the process. Should provide enough addrenaline for the thief-hunters and the thieves. How to make this happen in game is another story

Few wipes ago there was some tagged dude in hub, who hanged around the library/general store area, kept avoiding guards and player succesfully. I had some good times trying to hunt him down but got bored because he had so much hitpoints. Besides he couldn't have had anything worth taking anyway. Apart from the high hitpoints, that could be the thief-type we could try to create. Hell, why dont we add a perk that lets you see npc and player field of views and we got Aladin.